[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by soundman98

perfect example.

so laws haven't worked. let's make more laws, get stricter enforcement, implement a curfew, imprison more of them. now it's a game, more and more are participating in. now we've created australia. does no one read history books anymore?

i know that with the current legal property and rights structure, it would never work (the property owners would get sued into oblivion if anyone got hurt on the assumption they are responsible, and have something worth taking), but what about just opening up a large lot somewhere and letting them at it?

this isn't exactly a new problem-- younger people showing off in cars, doing stunts, getting egged on by a crowd. but it is a new problem in that there's more of them, and less and less space to do such things, and it goes onto the internet. most race tracks are closing down, those that are still open are expensive to use, pricing away the average person in a lot of ways.


many older car guys i know all have stories of doing similar 'stunting' stuff in the 50-70's. one guy i know still laughs about the time he blew through the 25mph-area city square at 110, had to cut across the courthouse lawn to make it through, the tracks were there for over a year. another 2, they broke through the barriers to the new under-construction highway, and ran all the way to 175mph 'till they got bored. they ended up stopping 10' away from the end of the concreted part of the highway. there's another part of town that's now part of a forest preserve that those same guy's maintained a marked 1/4 mile(stole some reflective highway paint to mark it)--they used to line both sides for 2 miles with cars, and take turns making passes every saturday night from 8pm to 5am.

my point is that this isn't a new problem, and there's really only 3 ways the people get out of it.

1. throw them in prison, which tends to result in a whole lot of other issues later(try getting a job with any record).
2. they grow out of it later.
3. they die.

a good majority fit into #2.

my major problem with more laws, and more prison time is that there's zero coming back from a criminal record. it's essentially a death sentence, but we keep them living so euthanasia doesn't become a political issue, despite likely being much more humane and more definitive to solving the problem.

this is specifically identified in country music star Jelly Roll's history, and current difficulties. the overarching philosophy behind prison has always been to rehabilitate and reintroduce people to become successful and productive members of society. i can't think of a better example of someone that's completely turned their life around from their criminal acts to becoming someone that successfully earns millions of dollars a year--essentially what most americans dream of doing. that by definition should be the rehabilitation and reintroduction that prison should pride itself on.

but if someone with that vast an income has difficulty overcoming such a system from buying a house, to just visiting other countries, there's pretty much no hope for even a moderately successful businessman of ever being anything after a conviction that results in prison time.

and at that point, it only encourages those individuals to become better criminals. which means more prison time, more waste of taxpayer dollars, and more future problems.

San Francisco is trying to make minor crimes and non-violent crimes less severe like for theft or possession. Addicts and poor people shouldn't be sent to prison for petty theft for something they can't help, was the idea, and I agree. Less people in prison costing tax payers money. Less people getting their life further ruined and just ending worse off because of prison life and damaging their record.
Unfortunately, it isn't working out too well for San Francisco because organized crime is just getting wise, and people who steal are just getting more brazen with stealing. It isn't working out for many areas in California and around the country. My wife is a manager at Whole Foods, and they deal with theft on a daily basis, with some people walking out with hundreds to over a thousand in supplements and other expensive items. Nothing they can do these days.

The solutions to the problems created from relaxing these laws is to create new laws to punish organized crime. In the end, these acts of theft are often NOT non-violent. Like looting during natural disasters or during riots, a few bad apples can normalize bad behavior, and/or people can get fed up and take matters into their own hands, which is a different type of lawlessness--vigilantism. This goes the same with speeding, reckless driving, racing, stunting, etc. I think the camera system is a good start. It increases compliance and increases enforcement. More police would be more intrusive and more expensive, but the benefit of more price is very often people don't just commit one crime. Officers pull people over for speeding and reckless driving, and they find no insurance, no registration, suspended licenses, driving under the influence, illegal possession of drugs and guns, intent to sell, child abuse and much more. Luckily people only have to deal with a camera.