[Irace86.2.0]

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

Live as you wish and do good as you see it. Allow others to do the same. Period.

Originally Posted by MuseChaser

So, in order to fit both of your acceptable versions of morality, everyone needs to do good only as you both see fit, and as you both allow it? Got it. A very, and unfortunately, common attitide these days.

We are omnivores by nature. Our teeth and biological makeup prove that beyond question. I choose to not defy nature. If you choose otherwise, I have absolutely no problem with that.
I have also sheltered and rehabilitated countless animals, worked on dairy farms, scooped newborn calves out of manure gutters, and given lifelong homes to thirteen cats and six beloved canine friends. I have no patience for those who are cruel to animals. I also have no patience for those who view their views as the only acceptable views.

My moral compass includes a healthy dose of humility, heaping piles of gratitude for the blessings bestowed upon me, and motivation to be as helpful as I can to others. Forcing my will, my beliefs, and my opinions on others, outside of raising my children in their childhood, isn't my place. The Golden Rule is certainly a great guideline. Would either of you appreciate being lectured and admonished as you have been doing here?

Live, and let live. Change the things you feel need changing by example and through kindness.

If someone took your statement literally outside of the context of this thread then that would be a terrible philosophy for living. If I thought rape and murder was something I wished and was good then should others accept that? Of course not because my choices affect others. Similarly, in the context of this topic, people choosing to eat animals the way we do with factory farming and at the scale we do affects others. It leads to more pollution, more land use for grazing and crops, more destruction of ecosystems, greater destruction of species, increase in greenhouse gas emissions, etc.

My original post said this, and it was a video providing counter arguments against anti-veganism. The arguments that followed support the position above in a thread that is centered around "Expert prognosis for the planet", meaning, we are discussing topics around the health and future of the planet. I have since defended that position. Are you suggesting that I am "forcing my will, my beliefs, and my opinions on others" by arguing my views in a forum setting? I lecture and admonish myself, and I am fine with someone doing the same if it is in the context of a debate. I have had a number of religious and other types of debates in my life on both sides, so I am not thinned skin enough to care.

Save the animals, the planet and the human race. Be a vegan:

As the video discusses, we can compare our teeth or digestive tracts to other obligate carnivores and herbivores, and they are closure to herbivores, and there is nothing there that suggests we need to eat meat or need to be omnivores. Our past doesn't have to define our future. We choose to defy our nature in all sorts of ways that to suggest we must be omnivores because we use to is silly and is special pleading. As I mentioned, eating animals is an unnecessary choice that has real ramifications for our species, other species, our land, ecosystems, pollution, climate change, etc. Most understand this fact, and if they don't then they stay in willful ignorance, but it would mean an inconvenience in their lives and a decrease in the pleasure of eating what they wanted to eat, so it comes down to a type of selfishness or ignorance.

Most people are overweight, don't work out, eat poor foods, etc, so expecting people to be vegan is a long shot. No one deconverts overnight. Hopefully people can start by reducing their intake of animal products, which is entirely possible considering the average person gets twice the amount of protein they need and far more saturated fat and cholesterol too. Baby steps.