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Originally Posted by Irace86.2.0
1. Ehh, the Elon anecdotes are getting old. The hypothetical is with speculating about how these two techs compare when the infrastructure doesn't exist and getting there could be the biggest obstacle. It isn't like California, for instance, isn't trying, and there is no reason why Toyota couldn't make their own stations, except the investment would be large:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrog...#North_America
2. That is cool if it works out someday, but it seems far less convenient to create hydrogen at home then have to use it to charge a car battery, when charging a battery directly would take two seconds to plug in a charger. I already do that now with my trickle charger for my Braille battery, as well as, my phone and laptop. What's one more thing?
3. I don't get your point? The Toyota Mirai weighs 4078lbs. The Model 3 weighs 3552-4072lbs. The Mirai has a battery, motor, a hydrogen cell and a hydrogen to electric converter, so yes, a smaller battery, but more stuff. There is less space in the hydrogen car; there is less safety in crash tests; there is less performance (0-60 of 9.0s).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Mirai
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_Model_3
4. It is either a status symbol theory, or the infrastructure isn't in place to make hydrogen cars popular/feasible; where anyone who has a home could charge an electric car, which is the other theory for why they are so successful. Superchargers only exist to allow for far distance travel for people who want to travel far distances in a Tesla or who have no other car in their household (most families do), or they are for people without access to a home charger or a close standard charger.
5. "Real car companies." Is there really a need for these stabs or insulting anecdotes? They get old. Toyota is investing in hydrogen for many reasons. For one thing, they already have invested in the technology, so it behooves them to try and make it work than cutting their losses. They could also be doing it because that is what could work in places like Japan or in some markets. Why aren't they working on electric? Because they already know how to make electric because they have been making hybrids forever, so maybe they don't believe the hype or tech is there (others do). Maybe they don't want to buck their current practices until the last minute when they will then dive into the market. Maybe they are quietly working on their tech, and they will wait for the batteries to reach more mileage or be cheaper. Volvo, VW and others do believe the hype, which is why they are plunging into development. |
1. You just showed that the investment for hydrogen infrastructure is smaller than it was for batteries alone.
2. It's far more convenient to not need to create hydrogen at home than it is to install home charging infrastructure. Not everyone can get a type 2 charger, and type 1s aren't going to cut it by my quick estimate. Even a type 2 might be too slow in some situations.
3. The Mirai uses NiMH batteries and a motor designed for use in conjunction with an gas engine to power the car. It's a large-scale test bed, not an optimized solution. I need to check in on the 2021 version, I hear that's much better in some ways.
4. Dadhawk's response is about what I would say.
5. Volvo, VW, and others are catering to market hype. If battery vehicles are what consumers want, boy can they pump out some battery vehicles and make a quick buck. The fact that Toyota and others continue to invest is indicative of a good, competitive solution that just doesn't have the marketing behind it. Nobody is seriously investing in solar powered or even wind-powered cars (sails) because those are simply bad solutions.