Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@Racer X Fab
I have a feeling that actual tuning for the manifold could fix this.
|
That's where the previous posts lost me. You're attempting to sell something that will drastically change the air flow rate yet you're not using a tune made for the product and you didn't even post air fuel ratios for the tiny bit of testing you did do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@Racer X Fab
Where to start… Well, when the project started we believed that the OEM intake manifold had a little more power in it. We started off with our first prototype manifold with what we thought would yield results. It did not, all of our testing has been completed in this thread. From there we built another 6 manifolds all of which have the dyno results again posted in this thread. Manifold #7 finally gave us the results we thought were possible between 5-10 percent total gain.
Once we found that manifold #7 produce positive results, we then purchased a full exhaust system to see the difference. We only picked up a few HP adding the exhaust system. We then used E85 and only picked up a few more HP. The best gains which are widely known on the forum are from adding a tune. This is still the case.
What happened to beta testing? We decided to cut our losses, it's that simple. We received around 75 emails with interest in beta testing the manifold, however in our previous experience only about 1 in 5 will actually follow through. We have about $10k in this project and we don't plan to do much more with it. Usually with positive results we get a few early adopters that use the component and spread the word of success or failure. In this case we have sold 2 manifolds since we released it.
The real issues in retrospect:
1) For the last 7 years the forum has stated that the best intake manifold is OEM, nothing can beat it. There were a handful of companies that gave it a shot and either did not post results or publicly said that it did not work.
2) The red intake manifold comes out in 2017 and is then assumed that changing from the OEM plastic manifold to the cast red intake manifold will net you 10 whp. This is simply not the case. In reality it has a real gain of roughly 1 whp. However, we have major retailers claiming that it gains 10 whp and sells for $300 to $400. Why would an enthusiast purchase the Racer X manifold for $979 when he can have the red manifold for half the price for the same "claim in whp”?
3) Expectations. Several times there were unrealistic numbers thrown around. 20 or 30 whp gains. From the beginning we thought a 5-10 percent gain would be reasonable. The best math I ever learned was
(expectations + results = disappoint)
|
You proposed this product to the community and then didn't follow through with actually showing gains on a full bolt on engine with a proper tune. Now you're blaming the community for the products failings‽ And others are here supporting you and saying potential customers shouldn't expect proper and thorough testing before we buy‽‽
1) There's still a ton of views on this thread and at least a few people that were actually interested in where this went. The two previous intake manifold projects I remember were both based on forced induction applications and therefore were never meant to give good NA gains.
2) Maybe I'm too old and out of touch, but I never thought the new OEM style was good for anything more than a couple of whp. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
3) 5-10% on a full bolt on engine would be ~10-20whp. That sounds pretty damn good to me. Show me its possible with at least an Ace header, full exhaust, and a proper tune. And put the air fuel ratios on the dyno plots. $10k to develop a product isn't nothing, but another ~$2k* for a good tune, and to donate a manifold to a customer in return for using their car, is still a very reasonable amount for developing a product.
Or not, it's entirely up to you. Obviously. But don't blame the customer base for not buying a product when they don't actually have any idea what they're buying.
*purely a guess.