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Old 06-28-2019, 09:09 PM   #224
949 Racing
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Drives: Miata, GT350, FR-S
Location: California, USA
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To answer the basic question of ride height, I have to deconstruct it. You are assuming lower might make it faster. We have seen here that an 86 with 255/40/17 and -2.5° to -4° front camber on 17x9 simply doesn't have much available room for tire to move upwards. This is the limit of bump travel, not the shocks. Pro level race tracks like Laguna Seca and COTA are really smooth. One can get away with really stiff and low setups. The reality is and you must asborb this ... these are not what we tune for because that's not what our customers actually drive on most weekends. The average club racing track is underfunded, rough, has pavement patches, different shaped kerbs around the tracks and is only slightly less bumpy than a public road. Why are we talking about this? Because tuning for that real world means retaining sufficient bump travel for a real street driven 86, half tank and 190lb driver (2900lbs) for this typical club track.

While taller ride heights aren't sexy, they are what's fast when the platform is an 86 on 255/40 with extra camber and OEM fender liners. You want slammed, look elsewhere. You want shocks capable of winning ST5 at NASA nationals at Mid Ohio in a few months, we have you covered. We have won two national championships and set three lap records on that track

If you read back through our earlier posts, you will see that the Xidas are engineered to allow the tire to move up as far as possible before hitting something. All Xida applications do this. Add offset or extended mounts and you'll be slamming your tires into the tub and breaking things.

Sway bars

Ask yourself why you are using the exact sway bar diameters you have on the car now. Did you try various sizes, collect data, tire temps, gps/accelerometer data or just pick something off website because some vendors cut/pasted ad copy from the sway bar manufacturer and you believed it?

98% of all aftermarket sway bars are "engineered" like this

1. Mfr shows up at SEMA to see new platform
2. Mfr gets OEM sway bar diameters and CAD drawing from SEMA to design new bars
3. Mfr add's some random fixed percentage diameter to front and rear bar. If OEM is mm, they round up to least expensive existing bar stock diameter in inches. That's why most aftermarket bars are in 1/8" increments.
4. Mfr's add same percentage front and rear, which completely disregards the fact that adding 2mm to a 10mm bar is 110% stiffer. Increasing a 20mm to 22mm is roughly 45% increase.

This means that everything else being equal, the typical non-engineered/ non-track tested aftermarket sway bar kit is going to shift the roll couple bias drastically towards the rear. Oversteer, in case the double speak lost you.

This is often complemented by the vast majority of beginner and intermediate level HPDE drivers who have yet to master brake release. Brake release is how a fast advanced level driver rotates a car into a turn with all four tires sliding a tiny bit. The intermediate driver can't do this yet so the car understeers even when set up perfectly. This cause the beginner and intermediate driver to hold the opinion that "my car pushes" and wishes to loose it up. Advanced driver hops in, goes 2s faster and says the car is a "a bit loose".

In general, any production car will need far more front roll stiffness than rear as grip is added with big sticky tires. So the exact opposite of the typical aftermarket matched sway bar kit.

As a shop with two pro level drivers on the development staff, this is always a hurdle for us when it comes to marketing. We know whats fast, sets lap records and wins national championships. But it often conflicts with the vast ocean of bad information and empty marketing hype floating around on the interweb.

So yes, we are crushing lap records with a relatively small 22mm front bar and stock rear and we aren't slammed. You decide how you want to set up your car based on regurgugitated marketing hype or actual on track R&D with a shop that has engineered and driven cars to 8 national championships and maybe 25 lap records across the country.

To answer your basic question, if that's what you are asking: "How do I get low so it looks cool?" Order the Race Spring Pack.

If you want even lower for hardparking, you'll have to accept your tires bottoming into the fender liners if you drive it too fast.

If you already have it in your mind that it won't "look right" or "be a real race setup" unless it's lower than we recommend, you will just have to trust us. I know that's a big ask and we're accustomed to that. It's why I'm here going through all this technical mumbo jumbo trying to paint a clearer picture for those that are still learning this stuff. You got questions, ask away!
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Last edited by 949 Racing; 07-02-2021 at 08:34 PM.
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