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Originally Posted by Pat
Sure some can pair alright with stock tires, but certainly non-track pads would be a better match, don't you think?
To answer your question more directly, I would think it is difficult for many drivers to modulate many true track pads as well as a typical high-performance street pad with the limited grip levels stock tires provide.
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Different brake pad manufacturers have different manufacturing capacities. The more sophisticated the tooling is, the more consistent the pad compounds become. Likewise, a very good race/track compound will allow for excellent control between a 800TW commuter tire and a 40TW racing slick. The key is how consistent the pads are under various pressures.
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Originally Posted by jsimon7777
Everything CSG is saying is true. Race pads are totally fine on stock tires, good enough that I've had an instructor comment that I braked harder than most people while I was running stock tires. ABS kicked in rarely, and it was noticeable when it did. I have no claim to goodness when driving, far from it, so it's not some "wow I'm so good" thing. More like a "if I can do it, anybody can" thing. Run a real race pad at the track, and Hawk offers ones that are perfectly fine. I'm sure CSG will want to sell you pads they think are better.
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There are many track enthusiasts around but few have actually tested a sweep of compounds of popular brake manufacturers. Yes, a race compound from Company A will not be ideal when comparing to a race compound from Company B. A race compound from Company C, who is the de facto company to contact for motorsport related activities, will actually have a race compound that can even work on low grip tires. Hawk has a contingency program in NASA/SCCA. Understandably, many stand by the brand because of lesser experience with other companies. In this case, many of sticking to what they know and what they are comfortable with. The world of brakes is vast and difficult to comprehend - Hawk is large in its own microcosm.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat
FWIW, the last couple years most of the time I have spent on-track has been with Maxxis RC-1s and DTC-60s. When I changed tires to GT Radial SX-2s, I found the pads were a bit much for the tires. It's really not a big deal, but enough that I have considered trying out DTC-30s with the new tires. Another 86CUP participant, and a long-time NASA group leader and instructor, feels more strongly about it than I do.
It's really not a big deal either way, but some pads will be easier to modulate with stock tires than others. Certainly some of it comes down to driver preference, as well.
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While sweeping through the Hawk lineup, the compound type will need to be of a lower category to gain the needs you may be looking for - pressure is not correlated consistently with friction coefficient, which is a function of the type of manufacturing process used to create the brake pads. If you were to try an actual motorsports compound that is used in professional racing, the pedal consistency is so reliable that you can "feel" and "know" exactly how much braking pressure is required to maintain consistent braking performance even on low grip tires without overheating the brake system. We've also proven that these motorsport compounds can take on slicks and low grip tires without issue. On the test mule's Road Atlanta run, we achieved 2.2G of braking on 220TW tires on factory calipers and discs at the end of the back straight with no brake ducting (none of our cars use brake ducting). We can thank FD for laying down a fresh layer of rubber to allow for this to happen, but any other standard off the shelf brake compound would have failed under that immense energy.
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Originally Posted by RayRay88
Looking at the Project Mu HC800's and GFour fluid for now, they seem to be very decently priced compared to the HP+, I think that might be a good starting point. I'll know more about what I want and the capabilities of me and the car after my track day.
Thank you everyone for your responses.
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Currently Project Mu HC+800 is discontinued, unless some entity had trouble selling their stash of inventory. If you're looking for a reasonable pad and fluid setup for stock tires, let us know and we can work out deets via PM. The budget sensitivity will be kept in mind for your application.
