[Tor]

Originally Posted by leevanf

Hi, Not to pin anyone down as its something i am genuinely curious about in comparing oft to ecutek since oft is sorta DIY. I just realized most shops don't really discuss things like AFR, and other measures of stability/reliability with the owner. (maybe upon request) but really just talk about peak hp/tq results.

Since the other posters don't answer your questions, I'll give it a go...

So, is it actually possible to ecutek tune a car thats NA or with headers, to extract max hp/torque yet in an unreliable/less than ideal way?

First of all, it's necessary to clear up the no. 1 misunderstanding when this topic comes up:
Speaking of a NA car, it doesn't matter diddly squat if the car is tuned with Ecutek's ProECU software, BRZEdit or RomRaider (forget OFT it's not a tuning device, it's a flashing device). How the tune, that is made in one of the above mentioned software, finds its way from a computer to the ECU doesn't matter (Ecutek Programming Kit, Tactrix, OFT, Kess etc.).

It's possible with all the above software to extract hp in undesirable ways. That may be e.g.: Too much timing, too lean.

In both cases, the car might run fine for a few minutes of hard driving. Afterward, when the engine internals heats up, the ECU will start to reduce ignition timing to prevent knock - causing a loss of performance.

So while it might look good on that one pull on the dyno, you may have significantly less power once driven on the road or especially a track.

for example. two ECUtek tuners may end up giving the car the same HP/TQ from the same mods, except one was done with reliability and longetivity in mind?

A proper tune will take the previous mentioned into account. So a reliable tune will keep performing after several pulls. A dyno-hero-tune may make a (slightly) prettier graph.

The ECU is very effective in dealing with knock. So it would have to be a disastrous tune to give longevity issues though.

Then there is the issue that the ECU learns fuel trims after being driven for a while. A tune made in 2 hours on a dyno doesn't account for that. More on that below...

I just noticed that in my area at least, not much really talk about the other aspects of tuning, like better efficiency, reliability, response, etc.

That's because there are no sales in that. Customers are drawn in with magical claims of 40% percent power increases from a header and a tune. It's magic!

The reason i ask is because i am going to be using stage 1 oft, but when the jdl/tomei uel arrives, thinking if i should sell the oft, and let an ECUtek tune take over?

Don't bother. You already have a flashing device (the OFT). RomRaider is free, and NA you don't have that many benefits from the extra features Ecutek will give you.

Some arguments for Ecutek though:
- Gimmicks like (proper) Flat Floor Shifting, rev match downshift, launch control etc.
- ECU Connect Bluetooth Interface (cool feature for logging and using an Apple/Android device for live logging) - but you already have the OFT which will do the same.
- Map switching if you plan to run different qualities of fuel 91/93.
- For advanced tuning extra tables where the tuner can program in special features. For a NA car not really necessary, and probably a lot of tuners won't use them.

Some arguments against Ecutek:
- First, if you get a remote tune - you WILL get a canned tune. That's the nature of remote tuning. So if the remote tune comes from Yummy tuning or Tablets Tuning, it's still a canned tune that in no way is tailored to your car. In both cases, it will need some dialing in. The remote tuner might offer to do a few revisions included in the price. Be aware that a few revisions might not be enough.
- The tune you get is in most cases LOCKED. That means no one can help you get it dialed in if later needed, except the tuner from where you bought the tune. And for sure he WILL charge you $ for it.
- If you decide to get a dyno tune locally, there is no guarantee that the tuner has any idea what he is doing or experience with the ft86. Also, a dyno tune alone is not ideal. After it has been tuned, it needs to be monitored what the ECU is learning and adjusted afterward, as mentioned previously. That leads us to...

Some arguments for canned tunes/road tuning:
- All FT86s come from the factory with a "canned" tune. They are not adjusting the cars individually before they leave the assembly line. Obviously! That's because a NA engine is not that complicated.
- In general, there is not that much to gain by dyno tuning an NA car. There are not that many parameters to adjust and most of them are no-brainers.
- Nobody will do "proper" dyno tuning for 500$ anyway due to time constraints/costs. If they were to dial it in perfectly, it would spend 2 days on the dyno and not 2 hours. Who will pay for that?
- Specifically for unlocked tunes, you can adjust them afterward yourself with the guidance of this very forum.

Just so you know where I'm coming from. Personally, I tune with RomRaider and flash with Tactrix. And I want to switch to EcuTek mainly because of interest and because I'd like to try it out. I would NEVER flash/let someone flash a locked tune to my ECU.