Quote:
Originally Posted by strat61caster
@ glamcem I'm curious and I don't mean to offend, but I just got around to watching your track vids (the ones at RMP) and I can't help but wonder if you've ever had anyone else quick drive your BRZ to compare yourself to them?
The reason I ask is that from the videos, both cars perform the exact same except for horsepower, you carry about the same amount of speed through every corner, so I can totally understand your sentiment that the Camaro handles just as well as the 86.
I can't help but wonder if you've got a mental block that prevented you from maxing out the capabilities of your 86, I wonder if that setup was capable of higher mid-corner speeds than what you have in your videos. Otherwise it's downright remarkable that the Camaro and BRZ are so extremely close in cornering capability, like within 2-5 mph through every single corner until the power comes on.
I only ask because I have 100% experienced this myself and that's where I'm at in my driving talent, if you put me in one car with street tires around a track, eventually I'll hit a wall where I think 'this is all I can do' and if you put me in a car that objectively handles better (better tires, suspension, lighter, whatever), I likely wouldn't significantly increase my mid-corner speeds because I still have that mental block of "oh I can only carry 40 mph through there" even though it's not a conscious decision.
You've been downright awesome coming back and posting your experiences in this thread, I've enjoyed reading your posts. I'm not trying to bag on the Camaro or your talent, I just found it incredible how similar they corner and can't help but wonder if it's the driver not the car. |
That's a great question, and I appreciate that you brought up this very important point. I am not offended or anything
In fact, I was asking the same question to myself and still do, things like "what would be the true potential of my car in a hands of a hot shoe like Randy Pobst?". The overall lap time would be definitely better of course but to what extent?
Keep in mind though, although the overall track time would be very different in the hands of an average track guy like me vs a professional race car driver, the difference in certain spots (tight corners and/or safe, long sweepers) shouldn't be that big IMO unlike the high speed corners, especially if you really study that certain corners over and over again. I use certain reference points to push the cars to the limit and find the sweet spots of the maximum entry and exit speeds just before the car starts sliding and cost me time. I typically use racechrono for this type of analysis but since it utilizes the GPS sensors (vs OBD readings) speed readings will be off. I typically need to trust my judgment bvecause of that and try to look at the speedo before, mid corner and corner exit when I can. With the BRZ, I think I had a good chance of pushing the car to its limits with the setup I had (not overall lap time as I mentioned above but the grip on certain corners ) and test different slip angles. I was referring to those sort of corners when I compared the Camaro.
Keep in mind, I couldn't even push the Camaro just yet but even with that I found that I am not behind my BRZ. I looked at certain cornner at the Ridge (carousel) and my overall speed was not behind the BRZ and I wasn't really close to the car its limits. My friend who has a track build Miata (aero, R comps, Ohlins..etc) told me that at that corner Viper ACR passed him like he was standing still
You would expect that a car that weighs almost 1,000lbs less than the Viper would be at least close to that but it wasn't the case. If you think about it the only advantage with a lighter car demolished by a lot heavier car. Viper will already has an advantage on every other metric and if I lighter car doesn't have that advantage the gap will be huge and it is. This is exactly how I felt with the 1LE. I didn't get a chance to push the last tires with my BRZ ( Z214s ) to its limits like the NT01s because no matter what I did, it felt like it still has a lot of grip to push it a bit further. I am talking about a 40 TW real R comps though.
1LE feels like (as expected from the performance metrics) it can still outhandle my BRZ. And I did ran off the track few times, had some tank slappers, a few spins here and there and had to back down after with the BRZ, while I was searching for those limits. In the videos, it's not very easy to see but in my best laps I was able to feel the back end is just about where it should be (no more or less). with that said, I might suck at shifting, deciding the best line ..etc of course that's where a real race driver comes in play
Other important perspective is; with a lighter, less powerful car it's somewhat easier to reach the car's limits, definitely easier than heavier and more powerful cars without worrying to kill yourself. Say for instance, if I were to use the BRZ at its 85-90% of its potential (at corner entry and exit), I should be only at maybe 75-80% with the 1LE. If the corner speeds on the Camaro is the same considering that I am not close enough to its true potential, it only means that the overall handling difference would be in favor of the Camaro. In both cases, driver factor (me) and the overall conditions were the same except the fact that I am still in learning phase of the 1LE.
I hope that helps ..