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Originally Posted by Tcoat
Comparing an 86 to a new gen Pony Car is like comparing apples to kumquats! Yes, the old gens were wallowing boats but neither the new Camaros nor Mustangs are anymore. They are starting to actually become the "sports cars" that they have so often been called.
I know that many feel this is a track based forum but I still chuckle as soon as the whole "but on the track..." thing starts. I have no idea what the percentage of time on a track (these cars that actually see one ever) but bet there are so many zeros between the decimal point and the number it is silly. On the street all the HP and goodies of the SS or GT are wasted most of the time no matter how good the driver is. The 86 has the advantage of it can actually use 80% of it's abilities instead of about 15% (there is a valid reason for all the Mustang crashing memes). The bloody thing was built to entertain and engage the driver in a different way than the Pony Cars and it does that very well. People that want Pony Car performance and style of driving should have bought one.
Now as far as the whole "put this that or the other engine in it" thing goes that is a whole different story. Those engine swapped, reinforced, huge wheeled, heavily modified Frankenstein's that are getting Pony Car drag times are NOT fucking FRSs or BRZs! They are basic components of them yes but they no longer should be called the name. The minute that engine comes out and everything is swapped to support the "upgrade" it is now just a Twin shell on a whole new platform.
I love my car but am under no illusions that it will ever EVER compete with the likes of top trim Camaros and Mustangs driven by another driver with the same level of skill that I have. It wasn't meant to compete with them from the start and anybody that thinks it was needs to wake up.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat
I am not saying don't do that if that is what you are after simply that it is no longer an 86 and there is no way it can be. You still running all stock parts other than the driveshaft? I doubt it.
Not a Model T
Not a Pinto
Not a school bus
Not a FRS
All very cool in their own right but most certainly no longer what they started as.
And sure everybody that pulls up beside you knows what an LS1 sounds like and are scared to death. |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat
LOL it would have been a good one although I do not feel my examples are that extreme. They are all cars that no longer have the engine or power train they came with.
I think you may be misunderstanding what I was trying to say (my fault if it wasn't clear) in the context of topic of this thread. I am not a purist nor a "keep the car as built because it is the bestest thing in the world 'cuz of the feels" fanboi. In fact my point in relation to this topic was the opposite really.
I was saying that there are many things the car does well but power and speed are not part of the equation so to compare them to a Camaro SS was not reasonable. They are two different vehicles built for two different reasons. What I was trying to get across was that in order to compete with the Pony Cars the Twins need to be made BETTER than they are stock in the power and speed categories. I was not stating nor intentionally implying that the changes you or others have made are destroying the car in any way shape or form. You are just making them different.
Many years ago I had a 64 Econoline shortbox van with a fully built 351 that pulled low 11s on the strip on a regular basis. Would it be a fair statement for me to claim that 1964 Econoline vans are faster than most sports cars? No, that would be a totally ludicrous statement.
My message was that an engine swapped, brake and suspension upgraded, big tired Twin can not be held up as evidence that our cars can complete with the likes of top level Camaros and Mustangs. Without major IMPROVEMENTS they can not even touch them.
Hope this makes my statements make more sense.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat
Removing the stock engine and installing a V8 IS a radical change in the car even if you kept the body stock. Maybe you don't see it as one and most certainly you can maintain the original feel of the car but it is not exactly still an FRS. You still seem to feel that I have insulted you some how and even with my explanation misunderstand (or just don't want to hear) what I am saying. I at least am not getting "riled" about your build and in fact totally support such things. All I am saying is that an FRS with a V8 in it is not representative of FRS performance and therefore is something different again. It is not a purist don't change anything statement, I don't think it is a hard concept to grasp and not sure why you continue to maintain your car is 100% FRS.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat
I fully understand your point since it is the exact same as what I was making. The "Frankenstein" was not meant to be derogative but descriptive. The creature was a bunch of parts taken and put together to make a new whole (which incidentally was BETTER than human if you read the book and not just watch the movies) and is that not the same as an engine/transmission/supporting mods swap is doing?
At no point in my other post did I say that was bad. I repeat that I was making a comparison in reference to creating a car that can beat a Camaro and that is exactly what you have done. I was in no way putting down swaps nor implying that engine swapped cars were inferior just that they are a whole different beast than stock. Please do not read everything as written in anger or contempt.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tcoat
What are you debating with me on?
Strat - "car gains 100-250 pounds"
Me - "Yep"
You - "my car gained 100 pounds"
Once again I said nothing about it impacting handling or any other such thing that could be construed as negative.
You then go on to say "trade off of 372whp and 465ftlbs of torque on pump gas NA" which supports my original statement that your car is no longer a "FRS" when competing against a Camaro.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by driftartist
To be honest I am a purist too. TBH I would prefer a toyota engine in this thing. But if someone decides to use an american v8, I won't bash, it isnt my style but i respect it
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Please go and read and point out where I "bashed" his build. I have zero issues with his build. I like the idea. I think it is great. I have said that over and over. All I maintain is that it is no longer an FRS. I am not a purist and have no dedication to Toyota nor Subaru but when you start swapping drive trains the car can no longer be called what it started.
My first post that riled him up so bad was to differentiate between an FRS and a car altered enough to compete with Pony cars I don't even say it is a bad idea just simply that they are not the same thing.
End of story.