Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB - View Single Post - Got a track related question? I'll try to answer.

jjaisli · 05-09-2016, 02:05 PM

@CSG_Mike

OK, so I just came back from my first track event of the year up at Watkins Glen. I went from (last year) Eibach springs, 215/45/17 Dunlop ZII and Hawk HP+ pads to 235/40/17 Toyo RA1s, Bilstein B16s, adjustable rear control arms and a StopTech BBK on the front.

I found that last year I was beginning to overheat the tires after more than 10-15 minutes, I was chewing up the outsides and I wasn't getting brake fade per se, but I was smoking hot coming off hot laps. And in general I just felt I was ready for more grip.

My shop recommended -2.4 camber f/r to start and they suggested I go full hard on the dampening and work backwards from there. It didn't exactly work out that way. Day one was borderline monsoon conditions until the late morning so I stayed out on my S-04s until the last hour of the day and was about 3-4 clicks from full hard both f/r. There was standing water and torrents just pouring across the track in many places.

Day two started out foggy, damp and overcast, and the temperature never went above 48~49*F, although it didn't rain. It was an open track event so I thought I had plenty of time but it seemed like every time I was ready to go out, somebody was dropping fluids or binning the car or the fog was rolling in. At least 4 times I left the gararge only to stare at a red flag before I even entered the pitlane. And just getting used to the track again and having much faster cars coming through with no point-bye took a bit of getting used to. So it was hard to string decent laps together. I really could have used an extra day to put things together.

I told my shop I didn't want an oversteering car. I need confidence in the rear end. But my overall impression was that I was getting a LOT of understeer, more than I had on my setup last year. I was kind of hoping for something a bit more neutral.

The tires are new, just the one heat cycle (3 moderate laps the prior afternoon) I started day two, one click from full hard on the dampening. I came off the track during my first session with pressures near 40 psi (less in the right rear). I immediately took 3 psi out all around. Next session, same experience. The shop recommended I soften the front end one click to make it a bit more compliant and decrease pressures another 2 psi as I was still coming off the track at around 37.5 psi.

The next time I went out I thought the front was a bit 'loose'. It wandered a bit under hard braking and it felt a bit disconnected (sort of like the front and rear weren't really working together) and I didn't like the way it felt, especially during left and right transitions like the bus stop chicane. I left pressures what they were (around 36.5 hot) and bumped the dampening up one notch, back to where it was.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUe3HPz9C7o"]Watkins Glen with Provoledo - YouTube[/ame]

You can hear it pretty clearly around the 0:10 mark.

Around the carousel, I'm taking an early apex (around 0:55) becasue taking my normal line I just found it tough to get the car down to the apex unless I really scrubbed off a lot of speed.

But I'm really struggling at T7 (1:20) and again at T8 (1:42). There at the heel, I couldn't even get the car turned in to the apex. I opened up but at that point I had already scrubbed off a lot speed.

T9 was tough but it is also an off camber corner so I'm used to getting understeer there. I think everybody does.

And T11 of course (a place you really DON'T want understeer for obvious reasons) around 2:15.

Maybe I was just expecting too much, expecting too much grip? Temperatures were pretty chilly. And I realize of course that B16s aren't the ideal solution but it is still a street driven car.

Any suggestions which way to go with this setup to make it a bit more neutral?

05-09-2016, 02:05 PM	#3815
jjaisli Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Drives: 2013 Scion FR-S Firestorm Location: The Ramapo Mountains NJ Posts: 248 Thanks: 212 Thanked 155 Times in 94 Posts Mentioned: 0 Post(s)	@CSG_Mike OK, so I just came back from my first track event of the year up at Watkins Glen. I went from (last year) Eibach springs, 215/45/17 Dunlop ZII and Hawk HP+ pads to 235/40/17 Toyo RA1s, Bilstein B16s, adjustable rear control arms and a StopTech BBK on the front. I found that last year I was beginning to overheat the tires after more than 10-15 minutes, I was chewing up the outsides and I wasn't getting brake fade per se, but I was smoking hot coming off hot laps. And in general I just felt I was ready for more grip. My shop recommended -2.4 camber f/r to start and they suggested I go full hard on the dampening and work backwards from there. It didn't exactly work out that way. Day one was borderline monsoon conditions until the late morning so I stayed out on my S-04s until the last hour of the day and was about 3-4 clicks from full hard both f/r. There was standing water and torrents just pouring across the track in many places. Day two started out foggy, damp and overcast, and the temperature never went above 48~49*F, although it didn't rain. It was an open track event so I thought I had plenty of time but it seemed like every time I was ready to go out, somebody was dropping fluids or binning the car or the fog was rolling in. At least 4 times I left the gararge only to stare at a red flag before I even entered the pitlane. And just getting used to the track again and having much faster cars coming through with no point-bye took a bit of getting used to. So it was hard to string decent laps together. I really could have used an extra day to put things together. I told my shop I didn't want an oversteering car. I need confidence in the rear end. But my overall impression was that I was getting a LOT of understeer, more than I had on my setup last year. I was kind of hoping for something a bit more neutral. The tires are new, just the one heat cycle (3 moderate laps the prior afternoon) I started day two, one click from full hard on the dampening. I came off the track during my first session with pressures near 40 psi (less in the right rear). I immediately took 3 psi out all around. Next session, same experience. The shop recommended I soften the front end one click to make it a bit more compliant and decrease pressures another 2 psi as I was still coming off the track at around 37.5 psi. The next time I went out I thought the front was a bit 'loose'. It wandered a bit under hard braking and it felt a bit disconnected (sort of like the front and rear weren't really working together) and I didn't like the way it felt, especially during left and right transitions like the bus stop chicane. I left pressures what they were (around 36.5 hot) and bumped the dampening up one notch, back to where it was. [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUe3HPz9C7o"]Watkins Glen with Provoledo - YouTube[/ame] You can hear it pretty clearly around the 0:10 mark. Around the carousel, I'm taking an early apex (around 0:55) becasue taking my normal line I just found it tough to get the car down to the apex unless I really scrubbed off a lot of speed. But I'm really struggling at T7 (1:20) and again at T8 (1:42). There at the heel, I couldn't even get the car turned in to the apex. I opened up but at that point I had already scrubbed off a lot speed. T9 was tough but it is also an off camber corner so I'm used to getting understeer there. I think everybody does. And T11 of course (a place you really DON'T want understeer for obvious reasons) around 2:15. Maybe I was just expecting too much, expecting too much grip? Temperatures were pretty chilly. And I realize of course that B16s aren't the ideal solution but it is still a street driven car. Any suggestions which way to go with this setup to make it a bit more neutral?