Quote:
Originally Posted by M_F
I do understand Top Gear's comments.
To try and lump one engine's supercharger to another is a very weak argument as no two engines are the same, and to say their supercharger design is prone to heat soak is ludicrous and more so because it is not even based upon an accurate fact about the NC MX-5 kit!
Again, misinformation. The Miata engines blew because of the original tuner selected did not understand the miata ECU enough. The tune changed over time and it blew motors. This IS on the internet multiple places.
"A bit of history: originally marketed under a well-known name, the kit was pulled from the market due to problems with the original reprogramming software. The hardware, designed and manufactured by supercharger company Magnusson, was solid. So Flyin' Miata worked with tuning specialist Dynotronics to unleash the potential of this awesome kit. We use ECUtek software to access the brains of your car and essentially turn it into a factory supercharged model. As a result of all this, we can offer the top-shelf hardware with quality engine management for less than the original pricing."
Cosworth took back the affected motors and rebuilt them with upgraded parts FOC. I have never heard of another manufacturer doing that. They stand behind their name and their product.
Also, with regards to them being heat soaked, it is impossible to find that on the miata, because it is simply NOT TRUE.
"contrary to what most folks think, the SC does not seem to heat soak all that bad.
When measuring true boosted air temps, first lap recover rates are about the same as 5-6 laps later.
We will have some good data on this with Larry's car shortly, as he is installing one of our TMAP sensors and the calibration for it. This should be interesting data to compare with what we have from the track here in both the 2.0 and 2.5 versions of the SC"
"It doesn't look like heat soak is the primary issue. It looks like the primary issue is IATs at boost, IMHO.
Larry's solution will likely help with that I think. If there was a way to refrigerate the coolant, that would be ideal. You could spray liquid CO2 or N2O on the intercooler, but that would only work as long as your supply of CO2. Although it might help in autoX."
"We've raced it in the gruelling Targa Newfoundland, a full week of competition over a variety of rally stages. Since then, it sees regular track time on our own track and across the country."
Multiple accounts of this kit running without issues from the most reputable tuners in the Miata community.
I follow a lot of threads and builds on this forum and was hoping to have an intelligent, fact based conversation. I am not sure why the internet brings out the worst in people. Literally, I have just had false information with no backing being displayed here.
I have not attacked a single point that has been backed by specific information, only that someone with no experience on the matter was making a claim. This discredits all further comments unfortunately. In the engineering and racing world, it is very small and these types of things will linger on one's reputation.
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Ok first of all I need to ask you:
Have you ever owned a Miata? what is your experience with both Miata and FT86 platform for extended track use and
more importantly with FI? I actually know a local guy who blew his engine because of the Cosworth/FM supercharger, also owned a Miata and been following threads (hundreds of pages) on the issue..
I personally know the tuners on Miata forums as well as their feedback on each FI kits since I owned a Miata, and modified/got tuned and considered all the FI options including the FM kit then I ended up selling the Miata since it took forever to get the kit that I liked (KW Rotrex kit) and FT86 platform already had tons of FI options available at that time...
I need you to understand that you read those optimistic comments (possibly written by Dynotronics) and possibly don't know the shortcomings in more detail..
Also, I never said Cosworth SC kit will blow an FA20 motor or it will work just as bad as the Miata because that would be an assumption and assumptions are bad, just like your assumptions on the platform which you don't have previous experience with,
Cosworth will possibly work fine when not pushed hard since our ECU is more advanced compared to NC Miatas and do good job on pulling timing, does that mean it doesn't heat soak or overheat? or ideal for extended track use? absolutely not, it will do both because there is no Screw type Magnusson Supercharged that doesn't cause heat soak or overheating issues
for extended track use non, nada, zip ...that's by design, keep in mind each FI solution has its advantages and disadvantages and it's not all red roses
even the OEM kits overheat at the track, take a look at the new C7 Z06, Camaro ZL1 (please don't tell me Cosworth or any other maker spends as much time and money on R&D as GM) , it sounds like you follow those magazines, I would highly suggest you to go read why many magazines had heating issues even after couple of laps with C7 Z06.. hence the reason why they increased their Oil temp warning messages to 320F
they all suffer from those because heat exchanger and water cooled intercooler is not ideal for extended track use once the you overheat the water in the system the recovery is way worse than air-cooled ICs.. if you think about it a large SC that sits right above the engine block will be prone to heat soak more than a centrifugal type .. combined with the available boost in earlier RPMS and the higher IATs, good luck fighting with them.. higher IATs is the single most important contributor to those cooling issues which ultimately leads to power loss, these are just the facts, whether or not we accept
..
This has nothing to do with Cosworth's reputation/heritage of bringing well thought products but the technical shortcomings of the screw type SC, if I were to use DD my car or not planning to attend as many track days during the track season I would definitely consider getting one because low-end torque is fine and having an intake manifold designed to specifically handle the boost (vs OEM manifold) has its advantages, nobody denies that fact..centrifugal type units also has their shortcomings but looking at the other alternatives that's the best option "
primarily" for extended track use.. ever wondered why so many Time attack guys or race teams prefer Rotrex and Turbo setups as opposed to PD types?
I think we need to be more realistic on our claims especially when there's no first hand experience or background on the topic..
Please do search and read more instead of jumping on conclusions