[mines13]

Originally Posted by TuxedoCartman

Mines, I've probably owned more cars in my life than you've ever driven. Only a tiny, tiny portion of those cars were bought from individuals, so yes... I have a ton of experience being on the purchasing side of a sales desk. Have all car dealers I've ever worked with been assholes? Nope. There was one... ONE... that didn't make me feel utterly dirty by doing business with him and his dealership. (Mind you I'm not saying that it was a great and happy buying experience, but that it was simply on par with a purchase somewhere like Macy's or Subway). As for the others? Off the top of my head I can easily think of 10 dealerships... ten... I had to do business with, on the other hand, that left me with a feeling like I'd had to entertain an admitted pedophile at family dinner. Those are just the really bad experiences that stand out in my mind. And don't give me that "just go to another dealer" crap; when you live in the midwest, and there's only four Subaru dealers within a four hour drive of you, and three of them are owned by the same people... shopping around isn't an option. (Not that it would matter much; I love Subaru's dearly, but have yet to walk out of one of their dealerships without wanting to punch somebody in the face).

Hell of a claim to make about someone you have never met. I purchased my SRT-4 in '03 new and purchased my S2000 new in '05. Both experiences went just fine. Bought my S2000 for invoice, no "undercoating" extended warranties, etc. Neither experience was negative or left a poor taste in my mouth. I went to purchase an Evolution 8 some years back, didn't really like the deal so I walked on it, I did not feel like I was being "screwed" I just didn't like the deal. I will not speculate on your car purchasing history simply because I know nothing of it.

That last line may be more of a commentary on yourself then the "evil" dealerships that surround your immediate area, seems like a lot but hey, it's possible. One often gets out of something what they put in to it.

You're not seeing the forest for the trees: I don't begrudge salesmen a profit, it's HOW they make their profit that pisses me off. Misleading individuals about availability of cars. Playing the whole "well I can get that info for you, just let me get your number and email address first..." bullshit game. The aforementioned $300 wax jobs and $500 applications of Armor-all. This is all bullshit profiteering off of uninformed people, usually under high-pressure sales tactics. And what if you are informed? Do you know how many dealerships I've had to get positively ugly with the sales staff to the point of walking out mid-purchase because they won't take "No" for an answer on a lot of that crap? More than 50% of the dealerships I've purchased at. More than half. And you wonder why we hate on the dealership model? Most salesmen don't know the correct horsepower rating of the cars they sell, but treat you like an idiot for not falling for their stupid markup crap. Again, I'm speaking from a helluva lot more purchasing experience than most of the people on here.

You make the assumption or at least are implying that all salesman do this, I think many would take offense. Most even. Regardless, you can always say no to add-ons, if being offered these things makes you want to "punch somebody in the face" or "get positively ugly with the sales staff" then maybe you need to identify in yourself what would spark such a reaction to something to trivial and insignificant that it would make you violent and seek some help. My SRT-4 had a markup on it, I told him I would buy the car today but I would pay no more then MSRP (right when the car was released). I left with the car, at MSRP. I never got billigerent or physically violent, I just said we can desk this deal today at MSRP they saw that I was serious, not there to **** around and they gave me a fair deal.

I'm speaking from a helluva lot more purchasing experience than most of the people on here.

I did not know it was a competition, but congratulations. I would not even know where you began to determine that to be a fact. But I will take your word for it.

As for dealers on this forum taking it personally, how can I put this... Speaking as a purchaser, we don't hate you, per se... we hate your job. It's like the guy who ran Saddam's rape-rooms. I'm sure he was a nice guy: called his mom on weekends, had a family, maybe even scrap-booked. Doesn't excuse the fact that his job was running freakin' rape-rooms!!! Same situation with you guys: I don't care how honest you think you are in your business dealings, you're still nothing more than a middle-man put there as a result of some stupidly misguided Federal trade laws. I want to be able to walk into a car showroom, get honest answers as to what it will take to get exactly what I'm looking for, give them money, receive car. That's IT!!! Scion's getting close to that with their Pure Pricing scheme, but even some dealers (there's that word again) are managing to mess that up.

What? I think it is a bit of the stretch to compare a car salesman at any level, to a guy that runs a rape den. If I sold cars, I would be a bit offended.

As for the getting a deal done with minimal static, you can. I have and people do it every day.

So like Ash was asking: what has the dealership model done that's GOOD for the consumer?

I believe competition is good for the consumer, as I stated earlier. It is not a matter of what is good or is not good. There is what is good for you as the individual buyer and what is not good for you as the individual buyer. There is always an alternative. Do not be so angry, we are all enthusiasts here.