[keithr]

It's funny... I see a lot of posts about clueless salespeople, horrible and rude attitudes, and it being the buyer's responsibility to know everything about the car before they go look at it....

It didn't used to be like that.

Salespeople used to be sent to product training by the dealers and/or manufacturers. Their role was not only to facilitate a sale, but to be a PRODUCT EXPERT. They answered questions, told you things (true things, not bullshit lies) that you didn't know, tidbits, feedback from other customers, etc. If you asked "How many horsepower does the engine make?" they would give you the correct answer.

Salespeople used to be courteous and friendly. Granted, years of abuse by the declining state of the general public has certainly taken its toll on the demeanor of the majority of customer-facing roles, however, that's a cop out excuse.

I remember test drives that used to be overnight. I'm not old enough for it to have been my purchase, but I distinctly remember my father taking cars home overnight. They'd say "take it home, let the wife check it out, go to dinner, come back and see us tomorrow."

There used to be a mutual respect.

Sales people used to EARN your sale, by SELLING. Not by being arrogant and insulting and basically telling you "buy this from me right now or you're a piece of shit for wasting my time."

I haven't had a salesperson work to SELL me a car in years. They just stand there and act like you're inconveniencing them, and they're doing YOU a favor by being there. Then they expect you to hand over your money, and the more they can squeeze out of you by trying to intimidate you, the more it pads THEIR pockets.

Their jobs, quite simply, have evolved from SELLING you a PRODUCT and FACILITATING a mutually-beneficial transaction, to nothing more than being a conduit to extract as much money out of your wallet as possible and funneling it into theirs. Period.

It's a new world. Most customers are shitheads, no doubt about it. I don't blame dealerships one bit for not trusting the majority of them past the end of the parking lot, because the sad truth is that so many people today really ARE shitheads.

Most salespeople are a fantastic combination of ignorant and arrogant.

I know we have sales people, service people, folks who work or worked for dealerships, etc., around here, and this isn't aimed at anyone, so here are my general thoughts:

Salespeople: *KNOW YOUR PRODUCT.* If your dealer/employer/manufacturer does not offer to send you to product expertise training, ask for it. If they still won't, find a new job. Treat EVERY customer with RESPECT and treat them EQUALLY until THEY give you a reason not to. Like Tcoat, I too dress very casually most of the time. When I walked onto a BMW lot some years back and nobody would even acknowledge my presence, probably because I was wearing cargo shorts, a Harley t-shirt, and tennis shoes, I just walked right back across to where my car was parked and left. I was fully prepared to buy a car that day, they lost my business.

Dealers: I have yet to meet any who aren't crooks. Period. Even the "family owned" and "no sleazy tricks here!" ones that advertise on TV with the 3rd-generation daughter as the spokesperson... at the end of the day, it's all the same. That being said, the megalo-conglomerate-ubercorporate places (Penske, Autonation, etc.) are really the Walmarts of car buying. Sometimes you can score a deal because of their volume, but don't expect decent service.

Customers: You have a responsibility, too. Be knowledgeable, but be respectful. It is not the sales person's job to kiss your ass. Be polite, understand that the person is trying to do their job as they are instructed to do it. Sometimes the policies of a dealership are shoved down the front line's throats. Sometimes the sales person is just an ass.

Whether they'll admit to it or not, many dealers will spend time and money on training their salespeople on psychological warfare rather than making them trusted sources of product expertise. The words that salespeople use, the ways they use them, the demeanor they exhibit, are often all tactics used to intimidate people and coerce them into agreeing to things they normally wouldn't.

"Pure pricing", or any version of something like that is BS, I don't care who wants to argue with me about it. It's another in a long list of fleecing tactics under the guise of doing you, the customer, some kind of favor. If you want "pure pricing" to ever work, then the entire auto industry would have to be revamped from the very foundations. Saturn tried it years ago, too.

Car buying has turned into a hostile and adversarial battle of wills. I will never tolerate a rude, disrespectful, or arrogant sales person. I will (and have) walk away from someone who has the wrong attitude and go talk to someone else, or I'll just go to another dealer. There are plenty who would be happy to take my money. They need me a lot more than I need them. It is their job to EARN MY BUSINESS, and it is my job to not be a complete d**k.

I had a Toyota salesguy tell me that the V6 Tacoma was 400HP. He also told me the FR-S was faster than the BRZ. He also told me I could get turbo as an option on the FR-S but not on a BRZ which is why I should trade my crappy BRZ and buy an FR-S. Then he told me that there was no such thing as the RS 1.0. I did not buy a Tacoma, or anything else, from him, needless to say.

The entire industry sucks.