[oneday]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Is this the current version of the old Speedvision Challenge? If that's the case then they make a lot of effort for parity. And cars that start from a bigger performance hole are allowed more extreme mods.

Yes, SCCA bought the SWC series at the end of the 09 season. Most, if not all of the rules carried over.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

blah, spew, blargh...
also your AudiVsPorsche idea is retarded, because a Audi CAN be a race car from stock.. where as a tC.. LOL

You are absolutely right. An A4 could be raced in stock trim. Have you ever raced or driven an A4 saloon (non-S/RS trim) of any recent generation? If so, then you are aware that an A4 in stock trim is an overweight, underpowered, pig of a car that doesn't like to turn, correct? You know, I think I said the exact same thing about my tC earlier in this very thread.

Originally Posted by 70NYD

you need a well constructed argument to actually have a viable response.. you based your WHOLE thing on one spelling mistake, and unless you are a complete retard, you knew it was a spelling mistake..

I did not base an entire argument on a spelling mistake; I made a joke about it. I knew you made a typo and I made fun of you for it. Toughen up, sunshine.

I have never denied owning a tC, why should I? Because some e-thug in Australia, thinks it's lame? Woah. Is. Me. What ever shall I do. I might cry into my keyboard all day long [for the record, that's not going to happen ].

You proposed that because I choose to not race my daily driven tC I am unfit to compare a tC to another car. My comparison of the A4/Porsche (admittedly, I did neglect to include the specific model. So, ex post facto, I was thinking of the Cayman) was illustrating how flawed your logic is. This flawed logic is also shown by your Audi-[unspecified model, I'll assume A4 still since that is what I used]-can-race-in-stock-trim-but-a-Scion-tC-can-not statement.

Originally Posted by Dimman

I'm sure [Honda/Acura] received a bit of funding but nowhere near what Scion/Toyota is throwing around.

Virtually every manufacturer throws money at teams to get them to use their platform. It's comes out of the mfg's advertising budget. There are a few privateer teams that run in big series races, but most do not last the season.

One make series are also decent ways to promote a car: TDI Cup, Mustang Challenge, Porsche Cup. Though Ford couldn't keep the Mustang Challenge series afloat after only two years and that brand and model are legen...wait for it...dary (and damn fun to flog around the track).

Originally Posted by Dimman

As for the Mazda claim. Two words: Spec Miata. Genuinely grassroots, still factory support for the series but not for individual teams. But again an excellent starting platform, that doesn't need tons of money thrown at it to not suck.

Mazda might pay something for the Spec Miata Series (NASA or SCCA) but a bulk of their support goes to the the teams and drivers in the form of contingency money and deals on replacement parts.

I'm sure Mazda provides funding to the Star Mazda Series, ALMS, Rolex, and Grand Am. They still offer contingency money to the teams & drivers that run in those series--and that is why teams keep Mazdas.

Originally Posted by Dimman

This is my issue with what Toyota's doing. It is doubtful that any team would have chosen a tC platform without all of the factory support that came with the marketing push. Instead of starting with a good car for the Scion racing campaign, they took what is basically a more styled version of the typical Toyota driving appliance and threw a ton of racing money at the racing versions to make them competitive.

I personally wouldn't pick any brand or car for a premier/grassroots series that wasn't going to provide me with support, be it financially or technologically. Sure there are privateers but they rarely make a full season.

Originally Posted by Dimman

As well as a full-race production-based tC may do on the track, it is much further from its stock version's handling and performance traits than for example a TSX or RX-8.

Like you mentioned earlier, the Touring Car rules create a great deal of parity. They require teams to use stock location suspension points, so the geometry is exactly the same as stock; it's just the running gear that is different. FWIW, DGR had to develop their own coilovers for their car and now sells them to consumers. I considered them for my car, but opted for a Koni/Eibach set up since I do not track my car.

Originally Posted by Dimman

PS: He's not a Troll, guys. He's a tC owner that's all...

Gee, thanks for that

Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1

Conversely, grassroots motorsports brings street cred, not racing heritage, so cut out the bullshit. Racing heritage comes from years at racing in top level motorsports; WRC, F1, LeMans, WTCC, BTCC, GT2/GT1 racing, Dakar, Baja etc. and taking home race wins and/or championship trophies while at it. With few exceptions, Toyota has done that in spades.

I disagree. You don't need to be in a premier series to have a racing heritage, nor do I think street cred and heritage are mutually exclusive marketing concepts. If Scion can help grassroots racers get into competitive cars (whether it's tC or an FT-86) and win races and championships, then that will be their heritage.

A racing heritage is not cemented in history with one successful season in one series, but it does have to start somewhere. Most young marquees will not throw tens of millions of dollars at premier series to build a following (look at Hyundai and their backing out of F1 [who could blame them?] before they even got in).