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Originally Posted by Dimman
Now, the Camry powerplant, that is one of the only connections to a factory Toyota, let alone Scion, that the AWD monster has. It could have a Camry, Matrix, RAV4 or Corolla carbon-fiber body over its chassis and be just as related. Actually more so to the Matrix and RAV4 given that they are available in AWD. Not even going into the 2JZGTE and 3RZ powered drag cars...
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It is the most extreme engineered AWD Time Attack car that I can think of currently. Because it continues to use the 2az, I can be proud of it, because it's the same motor we all have from the factory. It's not even sleeved and makes 1007whp/890wtq. You can say what you want, but I enjoy that, THAT car is under the Scion bonnet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimman
As for people hating the fact that the GT-R came out as a Nissan? Now I know you're talking out your ass. The only outrage was that they didn't call it a Skyline here.
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Talking out my ass? Sure...ok because not a SINGLE person on this planet snub nosed that it would be a $70k dollar Nissan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dimman
You are still missing my point. Out of the box, the tC, as good as anyone can mod it on their own, is a boring Toyota commuting appliance, with flashy marketing behind it. Toyota has learned from people like you, that there is no need to actually produce a real Scion performance car. They will make this thing safe and boring (while sponsoring awesome race versions)if they are gun-shy about lawsuits from idiot tC (the wannabe types, not necessarily enthusiasts like yourself) owners moving up to their first RWD car to be like Foust or Gushi, and spinning into oncoming traffic the first time it rains. They dumbed down the SW20 MR2 over similar concerns, so don't say it won't happen.
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The tC IS and WAS meant to be a "Blank" canvas. YOU as an individual were to make it YOUR OWN. Do you understand how that works now? That is their Marketing behind the Scion line in general. They were all Blank canvas machines. They didn't go add on turbos, stiffer suspension for you, wheel packages...etc. Do you honestly think you can buy a tC for less than $18 if they did all the performance upgrades like you would find on say a factory MS3, Civic SI (with its factory LSD), etc...
I don't buy your "fear of lawsuit" ideology as the reason why they don't produce a vehicle in a higher price bracket because of Noobs. Noobs can't usually afford the cost associated with owning a more Performance inspired car from the factory, thus weeding out that group of people. If that was their phobia, then we would not have 350z's, S2k's, Genesis Coupes....because everyone would be scared of that. Did you talk to a Toyota Executive and they told you that was their thought process when developing Scion? I think not....sorry. When Scion first launched and was released...there were no "performance" focus at all. The earlier commercials featured Show Cars.
And you can't simply right off the aftermarket for the brand. The Aftermarket for the tC created by Toyota giving money to companies to make parts. It takes more than that to have a great Aftermarket backing. Take the Gen Coupe for example....Car comes Turboed from the factory. The aftermarket is really slow with that car. I feel it's been out long enough to have an immediate following and R&D being done due to it's characteristics from the factory, yet they barely have anything for that car yet. My impression of the 2.0L turbo is not that great, it's heavy and as slow as a stock tC.
And wasn't there a 3S-GTE MR2? Was the SW20 MR2 cheaper than the 3S-GTE MR2? Could that not have been a move to offer the car at a cheaper price for those who still wanted an MR2 but couldn't afford the turbo version?
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Originally Posted by Dimman
I don't want this car to come out as a 'safe' Scion and have to spend another $10K on the thing to make it fun. The concern if it comes out as a Toyota is still there, but maybe Toyota will recognize that there are still guys like me that remember Toyota's RWD performance past.
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Nothing short of $70k dollar sports cars is "Fun" enough for me. I don't care what it is, I'm going to mod it. Stock = Lame no matter what you drive, unless it's like a Enzo, Veyron, Zanda or other Supercar platform. Even an R35 stock is lame although it's a Supercar killer in stock form. That's just my opinion. I can care less what mods they put on it from the factory, I'm going to change them for parts that are 10 times better from the Aftermarket.
tC didn't come with an LSD....So I put one in...LOL. I enjoy working and wrenching on my cars. If I bought a car that I was 100% happy with leaving stock, it would as I mentioned....have to be a Supercar.
You think Toyota will remember the Supra Follower...after it has Built a Long extensive History of Making "Green Commuter Cars", because that's where the money is at? I think they have a better chance at enhancing the buzz Scion already has developed in Motorsports and Enthusiast like me, than to spend $millions on a hunch that they can spark the old Toyota Motorsports Enthusiast.
From a business point, I wouldn't bet on rekindling the Toyota Fire.