View Single Post
Old 05-20-2012, 10:28 PM   #81
Moto-P
Senior Member
 
Moto-P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Drives: Many types of cars in R&D.
Location: Southern California, USA
Posts: 902
Thanks: 585
Thanked 3,059 Times in 568 Posts
Mentioned: 101 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Garage
I like to setup balance as much as possible using springs and shocks then only if I see it necessary, tune it further with larger sway bars. This is because one variable is easier to deal with on overall combined spring rate that works on all three axis, that can be precisely controlled by the dampers.

I'm not saying I don't use it, but merely stating that it is the last thing I touch, and sometimes the most difficult, and combined rate can seem awkward in handling to me when lateral and longitudinal tilt/dive amount seems grossly different.

But this is one of those things, where individual flavor has more to do than exact science...
I like cars that roll a bit, and at rate of descent precisely controlled by the shock absorbers.
It feels very tanacious when you get it right, and enough body roll can be synced to speed and motions that work well with the given chassis and tires, where each snap of hard left or right can load the appropriate tires aggressively and quickly, and that yaw be controllable also by brake or throttle, and be relieved of it just as easily and redirected to your next input.

Making a car corner too flat makes this transitional phase very short and snappy and driver error makes it hard to time well. Being theoretically quicker ideally, but often not and less fun to drive. Less docile when things are stiff and unintuitive.

Think of many tactics in martial arts or forms of dancing, kinetic ally similar activity but with your own body. To balance on your foot, skates, skis, you want your upper body to be strong, and able to sustain loads of your partner or your own violent weight loads, but your knees and ankles to be readily capable of rebalancing for any rapid changes to make inertial direction change to your next instinctive move. Introduction of a separate and uni-axis restriction and furthermore a spring re-lashing that isn't properly dampened by controlling damper can get pretty messy and tricky. I see it almost similar... for cars. Obviously if you got rubbery Nike Airs (race slick tires), you need harder muscles and bones but still in a good overall balanced rate to do your hip hop or break-dance. This, just in the same way if you're on loafers (street tires), one needs less strength and bones in the same balance, to allow for graceful transitions to swing your girl gracefully, and to have all axis predictable and ready, so you don't end up throwing your female partner across the room and falling on your ass.

On cars like the FRS sway bar tuning is even more complicated as its a very light car with low center mass, so there isn't much pitch, dive, and sway in the first place... So that slightest change can really start to prevent things from rolling at all, which can't be all good.
I would say as far as, I probably wouldn't go larger on them unless tires in question are the most aggressive of racing slicks that are enough to roll it that far that fast...

And even then, I'd still would probably work with that much harder spring/shock to hunker on those forces, and sway bars may still be optional to me... Only being a tool I use mostly if this is a dedicated car for very fast tracks with long high-G sweepers well into top of 3rd gear, and speeds I'm less comfortable with tenacious weight shifts... But that's one of those scenarios I rarely encounter, as most of my thrills come from smaller venues like autocross, small to medium road courses, and safe casual passes through twisty rural hill passes. These are places where I like high levels of chassis response, and less limitations for me to transitions easily. Overly pinned down suspensions prevent that, and not being able to cope with larger motions of the chassis is more the lack of finesse by the driver, I feel.
__________________
Moto Miwa
www.club4ag.com
R&D Driving Engineer, Product Planning Consultant
Consulting Member at Cusco, OEM+, RS-R.
www.club4ag.com

Last edited by Moto-P; 05-20-2012 at 10:53 PM.
Moto-P is offline   Reply With Quote