[Dimman]

One source of my rage (local meet in Vancouver, before Canada had the misfortune of the brand's availability):




(Pause for everyone to now realize I was absolutely right in my Scion-directed hate...)


No? Ok then.



DanKR: http://www.scion.com/scionracing/ It exists, they're spending money on it, at the very least my hyperbolic description of the tC owners is a goal of the campaign. So either it is working and getting wannabe drifters into Scions, or a horrible waste of money. Lose-lose.

Originally Posted by oneday

So what. They are still purpose built racecars that have so little in common with the factory car it's hardly worth mentioning.

I'm going to pick on the Pastrana example. The pics that follow are from a local rally team, Rocket Rally. And to put things in perspective, Pat Richard, the team owner and driver, won the inaugural Rally America overall title in 2005 before Pastrana's 4-peat. Now what will we find under the hood?

OMG a tranversely mounted sidevalve V10 powering only the front wheels! It's like nothing I've ever seen before in a Subaru!

Wait a minute... That's suspiciously like a regular Subaru H4. OMG the intercooler's been moved to the front! So has the throttle body! It's like nothing I've ever seen before! Only a top racing team laboratory could come up with such an advanced modification!

Urg, that's even too much sarcasm for me. Basically what I'm saying is, the difference between an Open class rally Subaru and an STI you buy off the floor is pretty small. And when we talk about realistic modifications that people do, it's downright minor. These things make way less power than a lot of modded street-driven Subies.

They're no more purpose built motors than what are in some of my friends' cars. (strengthened internals, head work, minor mods to a stock crank, not cheap, but not out of the league of most mortals, like the complete remake of the tC)









Alonso's Ferrari is a purpose-built racecar, the 'Camry' NASCARs are purpose-built racecars, and Foust's tC is a purpose-built race car. The rest are still production-based, and taking an STI to Open class rally spec is hardly the same thing as 'converting' a tC to be a RWD V8 smoke machine. And at least the Ferrari will have more relevant technology trickle-down to its street cars than the Camry or tC...

Originally Posted by oneday

And you can't be polite while being thorough? I did not realize they needed to be mutually exclusive.

Not when it comes to Scion.

Originally Posted by oneday

You just described probably 75% (just for the record, I made that stat up to illustrate a point) of automotive enthusiasts.

However this is the first brand to fit the bill. Yes poseurs can buy Porsches, but Porsche still makes real performance cars. Hell, even Hyundai decided to try to walk the walk this time, instead of just converting a Tiburon, like they did with their rally efforts.

Originally Posted by oneday

The "Lawyers will make them water it down" argument is tired and ignorant.

Originally Posted by oneday

Yes, money was not being discussed, only chassis & drivetrain layout vs driving dynamics. Dimman had implied that a motor positioned behind the front axle would cause too many wrecks and I was simply pointing out the flaw in that logic. If you prefer I could talk about the VW Beetle (no, not the New Beetle)? Or, there is the case of the Nissan 350Z/G35 with their notoriously twitchy and litigation riddled FMR chassis. Oh, sorry, that platform does quite well, actually....must be the more powerful motor that helps.

What's maybe ignorant is being unaware that Toyota has already done this once with the SW20 MR-2.

Old Beetle example is ridiculous due to the era.

Nissan's FMR is not as extreme as they would have you believe.

Originally Posted by oneday

Maybe Toyoda's intent with selling the FT as a Scion is to make the brand more than just a "Youth" brand, maybe he wants to see it also become something of a sportier brand since Toyota is regarded as a stodgier, appliance, family brand?

This has been brought up often. And I will continue to vehemently disagree. Both Nissan and Subaru have managed to shake up their 'meh' images with good product, no re-branding needed. If your tC had been a Camry or a Corolla coupe, you would have still bought it I'll assume. Same goes with 'non-target demographic' xB buyers that wanted an affordable, practical vehicle.

I do not hate Toyota. I hate their retarded marketing decision to waste tons of money on Scion when they could have just worked on better products.

And in addition to all my 'regular' Scion hate. I'm now being bombarded with lame, annoying and insulting ads as Scion is now available in Canada! They don't even call them 'dealerships' for fuck sakes...


My big issue is if a company makes more money from a marketing-driven brand than from an innovation/engineering-drive brand, what does that mean for the future products? We will get even more heavily marketed transport appliances masquerading as 'real' performance vehicles. Dark days...


PS:

Originally Posted by oneday

The bulk of the aftermarket industry is form over function, it does not matter if it is for Mustangs, 911s, WRXs or Supras (especially Mk3s).

Did you hit '3' when you meant '4'?

I will paraphrase a common Mk3 Supra joke:

A: What kind of car do you drive?
B: Supra
A: OMGYOUARETHECOOLESTPERSONIVEEVERMETCANISEEIT?????! !!???!!?? (Instant fanboy)
B: It's right there.
A: (sees it is a Mk3) OMGYOUARETHEBIGGESTLOSERIVEEVERMETICANTBELIEVEIMTA LKINGTOYOU!!!(Instant hater)