[oneday]

Originally Posted by Dark

I though you drive MX-5 and are from Holland.

I do and I am (but I am neither Dutch or from the Netherlands--I am sure there is a riddle in there somewhere).

Originally Posted by Dark

what I was trying to say is, Scion doesn't need FT-86 to be saved.

I don't understand what "s.th" is....but I get the gist of your comment. I agree Scion does not need the FT-86 to be saved. I don't even care if Scion is saved--they'll still have similar cars available as Toyotas.

Originally Posted by Dark

What Scion needs is s.th that more appeal to young buyers, especially small cars.

Again the "s.th"...thows me off....regardless: What Toyota needs for Scion to succeed is smaller cars with a little bit of a edgy look (not the xD). Attractive exteriors, well appointed interiors and reasonable prices are also what the segment demands from cars. If all it took was small inexpensive cars then Toyota would have sold the Yaris and Corolla as Scions, no?

Originally Posted by Dark

You don't want to buy your kid a 23K+ car when he's 16 or even 18.

Christ, I had a $500 '78 Nova I bought for myself at 16....so I could not fathom buying a child a car...they can buy it themselves. But to entertain your question: While I would prefer a more reasonably priced option and would likely be shopping for a used car for someone in that age range, if I had enough money to consider a $23K car for a kid I would expect it to be safe, economical, reliable and something the kid is going to appreciate enough to not trash it or take unnecessary risks with it. I see way more kids with Evos and STIs then you can imagine so a $23K Toyota/Scion seems much more reasonable to me.

Originally Posted by Dark

You sound a little biased is all I can say. I'm not biased about Toyota badge. Toyota legendary brand, not the one was just founded a few years ago, so it deserve s.th better than a bland lineup.

I'm really not biased, just trying to equalize the hate here.

A legendary brand means nothing without a group of products the world wants. Oldsmobile and Pontiac were legendary brands that do not exist anymore due to marketing failures--had nothing to do with engineering since GM did all that--and they are still around (barely). Pontiac in particular did not have a bland lineup (it wasn't exactly the "driving excitement" they promoted but the G8, Solstice and GTO were hardly blah).

There are so many legendary brands that have fallen off the market that it is sometimes depressing. Then there are some of the most legendary car manufacturers in the world (Bentley, Rolls Royce, Lamborghini, Audi, Mini, Opel) that are still in business because they are now a brand owned and operated by a larger company and can sell partially rebranded product. They live on off of the profit margins of the brother and sister product offerings (Lamborghini & Bentley [and Audi, to a lesser degree] would not exist if VAG didn't make a killing on VW and Porshe).

Legendary or not the Hyundai is making inroads with the Genesis Coupe, which is definitely a car that is on my (and probably a fair percent of potential FT-86 buyer's) radar for future purchases.

So, being a legendary brand does not equal success; well made and appropriately priced cars that appeal to a large enough percent of the public are what equals success. Could Scion one day become a legendary brand? Not sure if it can, and I am not sure if I care. I do know that Toyota did something different from the rest of the car producing world and it sure seemed to work, if only for a few years. I doubt Toyota execs will lose much sleep if Scion goes the way of Saturn, but I also doubt they want to see it fail.