[oneday]

Originally Posted by Dimman

The STI, Ferrari and Hyundai at least have the freakin' powertrain layout that you can buy off the showroom.

So what. They are still purpose built racecars that have so little in common with the factory car it's hardly worth mentioning. Yes, there are race series out there that require a large percentage of OEM components (most of the SCCA/NASA Club Racing classes, Grand Am CTSCC, and others) but they are very grassroots and these classes are designed to keep budgets reasonable for the participants (and not to be a viable way to sell cars).

Originally Posted by Dimman

[the other marquee's race cars] also share the fundamentals of the stock versions of their cars. The Scion drift car doesn't.

Again, you are talking about purpose built race cars. They have little in common with their mass produced, road going versions, save for the branding and silhouette.

Yes, the Rally America STI looks like an STI you can buy at your local dealership and it even has a turbo charged boxer motor and AWD chassis. The engine in the rally STI shares only the base architecture and is built from the ground up to be a motor for a rally car. Everything else on the rally STI is built to withstand the rigors of rally stages and has no similarity to anything on the street car. How is that so different than Toyota using the chassis from one car in their portfolio and the drivetrain from another? It's still a purpose built race car.

Purpose built racecars are also intended to be marketing tools. Toyota's marketing department is, by all standards, one of the best in the industry. They see an opportunity to sell cars to people by using the drift car's appearance to sell street cars. Anyone that buys a tC thinking it is in any way equal to the drift car they see someone clutch-kicking through a chicane is as delusional as the mook that buys an STI thinking he's got the same thing as Pastrana.

Originally Posted by Dimman

As for everything else I skimmed through, I'm not going to point-by-point it. I'll give you a more polite version.

Skimming is a great way to ensure ignorance. And you can't be polite while being thorough? I did not realize they needed to be mutually exclusive.

Originally Posted by Dimman

All talk no walk.

You just described probably 75% (just for the record, I made that stat up to illustrate a point) of automotive enthusiasts. With very few exceptions no matter what brand or model of car you own many of fellow owners are going to mod their car to look a certain way--like a purpose built racecar that shares a shapeperhaps?--rather than to make it perform a certain way. I deal with these people on a daily basis. The bulk of the aftermarket industry is form over function, it does not matter if it is for Mustangs, 911s, WRXs or Supras (especially Mk3s).

Originally Posted by Dimman

Toyota needs to shake up its North American management bad.

Yes. Yes they do.

Originally Posted by Calais

yes toyota does do the engineering but if it comes out of toyota the "youth" that will be interested in it if it were a scion wont want it because toyota isnt "cool," right?

So you are saying it should be a Scion otherwise it won't sell because Toyota does not make exciting cars? Not sure I follow.

Originally Posted by Calais

so the lawyers wont be pressuring toyota because the buyers will be the enthusiasts and know how to drive this car and therefore the car will have less of a chance of being put into a tree by someone who dosnt know how to drive, hence the car comes as its supposed to and not a watered down version because toyota dosnt want to be sued.

Stop. Just. Stop. There is no vetting process for buyers of cars, save for "Can you afford it?" I don't care what brand, make or model car you are considering buying driver ability never comes into play. Look at the number of exotics that are bought, and wrecked, buy more-money-than-skill drivers everyday (I've been witness to two of these in the last year while at the track). I can find you dozens videos & pictures of just this kind of thing. The "Lawyers will make them water it down" argument is tired and ignorant.

Originally Posted by Calais

@ oneday only did you really just compare porsche to toyota???

Yes, money was not being discussed, only chassis & drivetrain layout vs driving dynamics. Dimman had implied that a motor positioned behind the front axle would cause too many wrecks and I was simply pointing out the flaw in that logic. If you prefer I could talk about the VW Beetle (no, not the New Beetle)? Or, there is the case of the Nissan 350Z/G35 with their notoriously twitchy and litigation riddled FMR chassis. Oh, sorry, that platform does quite well, actually....must be the more powerful motor that helps.

Originally Posted by Calais

thats why i dont want it to be a scion because with the price target of this car and the demographic of scion the car wont only be re-engineered in the states it will be worldwide, because toyota wont want kids killing themselves in their ft's

But it's already been argued that the price of the FT-86 will be too high for the 20-25 y/o tC target market...so maybe Toyota wants Scion to grow _with_ their previous customers rather than their now older customer looking elsewhere (like a Hyundai Genesis Coupe)?

Originally Posted by Calais

look what has happened because of Englands rule on the front of cars the hood is going to have to be raised by 50mm to comply and thus is going to effect every ft sold in the world.

That is nothing new, world platform cars have had to accommodate Europe’s pedestrian safety legislation for the last few years. It's also nothing new that concept cars rarely are designed ready for production, but rather stylized/idealized renderings of what a designer would make in a perfect world.

Originally Posted by Dark

@ oneday: I have a few questions for you.

[Marketing Pop Quiz]

I understand the purpose and intent of the Scion brand. I don't necessarily buy in to that marketing, but I understand it. Yes, I own a tC, but not because it was marketed to me--I am outside the target demographic. I bought it because I like the way it looked, it was a good value and it was built buy Toyota--I'd had several Toyotas of my own and in my family previously (MR2, Celica, Paseo [ugh]) so knew their reputation. I will likely own another Toyota product again (Tundra--I need a tow vehicle in the worst way). Maybe Toyoda's intent with selling the FT as a Scion is to make the brand more than just a "Youth" brand, maybe he wants to see it also become something of a sportier brand since Toyota is regarded as a stodgier, appliance, family brand?

Originally Posted by Dark

Some people say Toyota wants to save Scion. Yeah. It makes sense because losing a brand means losing a lot of money, but Scion would have been closed the door long time ago if it has not done good job. If they really make FT-86 a Scion, they are too childish to be hired by Toyota.

Dark, no disrespect intended, but is English a second language for you? I am having a hard time understanding the point you are trying to make here. Care to give it another go?