[DantKR]

Too much text sorry, have to break this up into 2 post:

Originally Posted by Siriusly.Andrew

I'm with Dimman. Scion has marketed FAKE cars from day one. I'm pretty sure I can't buy a RWD tC from the dealership that comes with a NASCAR V8.

Why do you think theres so many trashed Scions? These kids who buy Scions see people like Tanner Foust drifting his tC looking NASCAR and they want a piece. They trip to the nearest Scion dealership and buy a tC and rally it into a tree 500 yards from the dealership.

I can't buy from a company that advertises cars they don't make. Scion is fake to me. Toyota is REAL. Subaru is REAL. They used their cars with their engines to make it in the performance world, no heavily modified platforms like the Scion teams are running.

Thats basically what Dimman was going at, I believe. Or at least thats how I interpreted it.

There is a butt load of marketing that goes into any brand that does any kind of drifting, drag racing, rally racing. None of those vehicles come with any kind of setups that are found there. Unfortunately there is no RWD STi on the market either But I have to be honest, the image of someone running into a tree 500 yards away from the dealership made me laugh pretty good. But we both know that is far from the truth.

Originally Posted by Dimman

Scion has clung to the Fast and Furious left-over scene. A lot of these buyers are image above substance. All talk no walk.

This is your issue right here. You're assuming that 90% of people that buy Scions(TC, because we know the other ones people aren't buying to rice out, which are sell just as much if not more than the TC so I'm really starting to wonder what the point in your argument at all is) are buying them to rice out, when in fact, it's the other way around. 90% of people that buy Scions(TC) buy them because they want something decent for the money and don't want to buy a Hyundai Sonata.

They're promoting 2JZ powered Scion drag cars and NASCAR V8 drift cars. This is marketing. Yet the 'performance-oriented' Scion buyer can only purchase 4 cylinder FWD 'cool' econo-boxes.

Again, every brand has something that they use to market that you can't buy or come close to having that setup. The problem is, as it's been stated, outside of Lexus, Toyota as a whole doesn't have anything to use as their sporty image, this should change with the release of the FT-86.

The Scion buyers that are influenced by this marketing strategy don't have the common sense to see through this and by a used Supra (or SC400 if they want the V8).

They are sheep.

I think this is where you're 100000% wrong. I can tell you 99% of scion buyers don't even know about 1/2 the stuff you're bringing up. I can tell you someone buying a xB, xD, or iQ aren't really influenced at all by the drifting machine or RWD anything, and most likely neither are the TC buyers.

It is a waste of money that Toyota can be putting into solid, engineering development.

Toyota has more reason than most to be gun-shy about lawsuits.

They will dumb-down a car based on their perceived market and response to accidents, etc... (See bolded section.)

I'm sure Toyota has gained more money from Scion than lost.

Toyota's name is down due to all of the recalls, I believe that is the MAIN reason Toyota USA is even considering releasing the FT as a Scion, is not to save Scion's face, but to save the FT's face. There were no issues with accelerators in the Scions, but there were a ton(including driver error) of recalls going on with Toyota.

Originally Posted by Calais

to both of you

yes toyota does do the engineering but if it comes out of toyota the "youth" that will be interested in it if it were a scion wont want it because toyota isnt "cool," right?

Honestly, who knows? We obviously know that most of Toyota's buyers are generally over 40's for now.