Quote:
Originally Posted by CSG Mike
Because at the end of the day, there is no replacement for displacement....
The wide, flat torque curves are actually manufacturers chasing emissions and MPG ratings, rather than "driveability", for the most part. I wouldn't call a EJ257 with a powerband of 4k-6k wide and flat  Or a 4G63 in an Evo. Or the M133 in the CLA45 AMG.
I do agree, big flat powerbands are nice for street driving, but I don't think that's why most people decided to purchase a FRS/BRZ.
The big difference in driveability is not that the Innovate makes more power down low, but that the Innovate's throttle tip in is ultra aggressive. If you do a 20-80 3rd gear (MT) pull in a Vortech vs Innovate car, the Innovate never pulls more than about 3-4 feet before the Vortech starts reeling in the Innovate car.
Likewise, if you do a 20-80 pull in a VQ35DE 350Z vs AP2 S2000, the 350Z doesn't actually ever get more than about 5 feet ahead, before the S2k wizzes by.
In both cases, the Innovate and 350z *feel* subjectively much more powerful at low RPMs.
In my case, I'm never in the 1500-2500RPM range unless I'm strictly cruising; downshifting to accelerate comes naturally to me, and a 3 gear downshift isn't out of the ordinary when I'm driving.
Why do you prefer to not downshift for a pass street driving? Inconvenience? An Auto (or twin cluch in some other platforms) would fix that...
Different strokes for different folks. |
Ugh, an awful lot of generalizations and subjective comparisons here:
"I do agree, big flat powerbands are nice for street driving, but I don't think that's why most people decided to purchase a FRS/BRZ. " - most people bought the FRS/BRZ because it offers a very capable and fun chassis for very little money. There's a rapidly growing aftermarket for the FA20, mostly because people are looking for more power and a better power band. Headers are a hot item, mostly because it improves low end torque.
"The big difference in driveability is not that the Innovate makes more power down low, but that the Innovate's throttle tip in is ultra aggressive. If you do a 20-80 3rd gear (MT) pull in a Vortech vs Innovate car, the Innovate never pulls more than about 3-4 feet before the Vortech starts reeling in the Innovate car." - specific examples? Vortechs range from 230whp to over 300whp peak. Innovate kits vary from 210whp to 300whp. I have no doubt that a "tuned up" Vortech kit will zoom by a base map non-intercooled Innovate kit. Take an Innovate kit tuned to 280 whp (common), and a vortech kit tuned to 280 whp (common) and the Innovate kit will walk away from the Vortech kit.
"Why do you prefer to not downshift for a pass street driving? Inconvenience? An Auto (or twin cluch in some other platforms) would fix that..." - Well I don't particularly mind downshifting, like I said I enjoy it most of the time. But you have to be prepared - many times in traffic situations you're caught in a lower gear but need to make a quick decision to accelerate (switching lanes in traffic etc.) Big torque band makes it effortless. I prefer a manual because I enjoy the experience, I shouldn't have to resort to a different gearbox because my engine is peaky - I'd rather just resort to a well designed/tuned PD SC or turbo system.
Not really looking to butt heads with anyone on this - to each their own, but I don't really think you can argue that a peaky torque curve is generally superior or preferable to a flat torque curve. Centrifugal superchargers are a compromise system - they work well enough (especially for track use), but there's a reason manufacturers don't use them, because well engineered positive displacement systems or turbochargers are just a better option.