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Originally Posted by BoostJunkie
Kinda hot in here or is it just me?  |
I'm enjoying the discussions!
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Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1
As does the 1UZ V8. Toyota took a step Backwards this generation wrt engine weight.
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Except that the modern 2GRFE makes as much power/torque and is capable of incredibly good fuel economy for its output (20/29mpg in the AVALON, for chrissakes!).
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Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1
Says who? While you might be right, I don't think this thing will weight any more than 2700lbs. If it does (in NA trim) Toyota will have failed imho.
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Says me. That's just how modern cars work.. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it weighs in under 2,900 pounds. 2900 pounds is still a nice weight, in any case.
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Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1
Ah, but you can't position the 2GR as far back as you could the boxer engine. The CoG would also be MUCH higher, and it's not just centering the weight, but lowering it as well. Further more, it would have design implications (aesthetic as well as aerodynamic) too. It would be impossible to make the hoodline as low, especially to comply with pedestrian saftey regulations.
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You're splitting hairs. once again, 99.99% of drivers would not be able to discern a difference..
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Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1
Of course, but I think you fail to grasp that this car is no Supra. I love Toyota's V6 & V8 engines, but I think an engine should be well matched to the chassis to make a great car, and I do think that a bigger chassis would be better for a 2GR engine. Maybe if they decide to make a roadster for Lexus, stretching it ever so slightly and forgetting the 2 rear seats then a 2GR would be a perfect fit.
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I'm not sure why you think I was expecting this to be a Supra..
Also, "big motor, small car" is a classic recipe for awesomeness and excellent hoonage. "Small motor, small car" is a classic recipe for econoboxes that are fun to flog but not exactly awesome (see AE86, MR2, Miata, every British roadster from the 60s/70s..). You're really, really overthinking it here, methinks.
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Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1
I think calling it a "raging pile of shit" is a bit extreme, but what else do you expect from a 24+ year old engine? If the engines today weren't better then that would indeed make them raging piles of shit.
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I don't feel that way at all. The 4AGE is a fine engine.. but it really is lackluster. It's a dog. It's fun as hell to wring out to redline.. but it doesn't do much in terms of moving the car real well.
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Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1
Basically... they'd have to redesign the front end, find a manual transmission to go with it, probably put a bigger diff in the back, probably redesign the suspension geometries, bigger brakes... and the list goes on.
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Did you read what I wrote? All this stuff is already on the shelf.. Maybe mostly the Lexus parts shelf, but still on the shelf. These parts existed before they ever even began designing the boxer setup. I'm sure they have their reasons.. (cost being primary, no doubt).. As this car is supposed to cost less than a 370Z (although I'll believe that when I see it).
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Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1
It seems that for you, everything comes down to power, and that's what your problem is. Pull your head out of you ass, and just MAYBE, you could get what this car is about.
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You couldn't be more wrong
I put a 165hp/185lb-ft V6 into my '93 MR2.. It'll never make as much peak power and torque as a lightly-modified factory turbo engine.. so why would I do that if I were all about horsepower?
The swap I did was for drivability and all around performance. It's about ridiculously crisp throttle response and low-end oomph. It's about it being a fantastic highway cruiser as well as a burnout machine...
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Originally Posted by MatadorRacing_F1
No, I don't want Toyota to handicap the car (see MR-2 Spyder), but the car has to work for the pretty blonde who doesn't like to spend much on gas, or the wanna be cool eco geek as much as the hard core track nuts/sunday canyon racers like the people on this forum. As you said, if this car doesn't sell, we will have to go without after a generation or two. Furthermore, saying 4 cylinders are crap, is a huge injustice to the legendary 4 cylinder motors that have existed, and care fuck all about cost or economy.
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If the 2GR can do 29mpg in an Avalon.. I'm sure it could hit mid 30s in a sub-3000pound coupe. 270-300whp and 34-35mpg? Sign me up!