Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB - View Single Post - Test drove a 2014 BRZ...not worth $20,000

iBoost · 09-01-2014, 09:06 AM

I believed the hype about the Subaru BRZ / Toyota FRS models. Being a car enthusiast myself, who drives a 2004 Subaru Forester XT (stock auto) and a Turbocharged Toyota Soarer making 600hp (manual transmission), I was interested in the BRZ as a new project car I can turbo charge and daily drive.

Why was I so interested?

I like the "glued-to-the-ground" driving feeling of the Subaru boxer engine layout (i.e. low center of gravity) in my turbo Forester and am always impressed how well it grips during turns for being so high off the ground. Plus, the lighter weight of this '04 Forester XT and faster acceleraton than the newer heavier XT's left me with a good overall impression.

So, when I learned this Subaru BRZ also has a boxer engine with direct injection, better gas mileage than either of my cars, cheaper maintenance via 2-less spark plugs than my Toyota Soarer + easier oil change with oil filter locaion, is ~600 pounds lighter (-700lbs compared to my Toyota Soarer 2JZ car) with a better chassis and lower center of gravity, a lighter RWD drivetrain, and Trunk with fold-down rear seats utility, I thought this new ft86 was a recipe for perfection.

Naturally, I test drove a 2014 Subaru BRZ (6 speed manual transmission) with less than 20 miles on the odometer... And Boy was I disappointed during the test drive. Here is why:

DISLIKES
1. Underpowered: The fact that Subaru / Toyota put such a horribly WEAK output motor in this car and chassis is sacrilege. It ruined the driving experience for me big time. It was like giving an obese person ballerina soft-thin shoes and expecting them to run a marathon with those no-pad-like skins on their feet. In this BRZ, I could not get the car to "run" to my liking with such a weak-output motor. This is SACRILEGE Subaru/Toyota, you hear me?!

2. Sloppy Transmission Shifting Feel: The transmission would not engage or disengage easily during differnt rpms' and loads that were not the car's natural shift points. So, I had to rev-match the engine for smoother shifts. I was expecting a better quality and smoother shift experience from such a nice looking and high priced car (dealer new price = $30,995). I question anyone's integrity saying the stock-original Subaru BRZ 6-speed manual transmission is the best shifting transmission they've ever used. LOL!

3. Suspension Noise: Everytime I or the Dealership Salesman got into and out of the car there was a very audible Creaking sound from under the car. Plus, taking any turn in a spirited fashion that induced some body roll resulted in a loud crunching / grinding noise coming from the wheel well area under the most stress.

4. Bouncy ride above 35mph: Although the steering response felt quick in the BRZ, the overall ride felt unnecessarily bouncy on the street when going above 35mph. In this stock form, I don't think it would be as comfortable as my Forester or modified Toyota Soarer for long road trips.

5. Less Grip and Rear-End Losing Traction during Turns: The rear end of the car would lose traction on any spirited-driving street turn (Yes, traction control was ON). This was a let down because I expected this car to grip the turns better without losing traction. In fact, after the test drive I took my Subaru Forester XT on the same turn and achieved a higher speed +7mph with no loss of traction. My "old" Forester SUV gripped the turn better much to my surprise! To be fair, I was not aware of the tire pressures in each car so this could also be a contributing factor. Nevertheless, the tendency of the BRZ's rear wheels to lose traction on a turn sooner than I expected was disappointing.

6. Reliability problems: The reported gasket-material leaks from new BRZ motors mentioned by the honest Salesman and the reported AVCS failures from the Subaru / Toyota Scion community certainly didn't inspire me with confidence that this car would be as reliable as I hoped...especially boosted from 320whp[93 pump] to 400whp[e85].

7. Cramped Interior Feeling during entry & exit: After adjusting the seat and steering wheel for the perfect driver position, my knees would always hit the dash part next to the door as I exited the vehicle. I had to twist my hips to avoid hitting this part of the BRZ whereas in my Toyota Soarer and Subaru Forester, I can slide out in comfort.

Despite these negatives about the BRZ, here is what I liked about the car:

LIKES
1. Steering Response and Feel: The initial turn-in is GREAT in this car and just made me want to approach turns at higher speeds than I ordinarily would in other cars. Also, the steering wheel ergonomics are fantastic and the ability to telescopically adjust it forward/back/up/down rocks.

2. Driver position: It seems well thought-out in this car and truly felt like a "driver's car" the minute I sat in it and gripped the steering wheel. I had good visibility of the road in front of me and everything seemed well within arms reach.

3. Tire Pressure Sensors: ..Great to have these in a true Driver's car.

4. Driver Control: Although the rear-end of the car slides out too much for my liking on the oem tires/wheels, it was still very easy to control the skid and recover with almost-effortless steering input.

5. Conversation Quiet: I noticed some typical road-noise frequencies were not as audible in the BRZ as they are in my other 2 cars. It was ever-so-slightly easier to carry on a conversation with the passenger at highway cruising speeds although I could hear other noises outside this "conversation-like" frequency spectrum. So, it felt slightly quieter in this frequency range, but not-so-quiet hearing the suspension grinding noise on sharp turns and common road noise. I'm interested to see the results of a frequency spectrum analysis performed inside the car to see which sound frequencies are louder than others.

6. Seats: The front seats felt snug, comfortable, and secure.

Decision Time
Would I buy it for $30,000? Heck NO
Would I buy it for $20,000? no.
How about a used good condition BRZ or F-RS for $14,000? maybe.

Why do I think the BRZ / FRS is not worth even $20k? I just cannot ignore the "complete package" aspect of a car. If it's weak in a vital area, then why should I pay more for it?

From a "project car" persepctive, I've learned the less mods & money I put into the project car to achieve my goals, the sooner I get to enjoy the reward and put that extra money into fuel (for more driving fun) and weekend track events. Therefore, I have to succumb to the reality that cars like a used Mazda Miata MX5's (1 example) are a better value as a project car because one can purchase it for half the price of a used BRZ / FRS, turbocharge it, and still reap the benefits of a 300 pound lighter car than the BRZ / FRS while having spent less to get the desired performance.

I haven't ruled out the BRZ / FRS, but in stock form it just didn't "wow" me like the magazine and blog reviews said it would.

QUESTIONS for you modded BRZ & FRS owners
1. How much better does the Street handling GRIP improve on your FRS / BRZ's when you add say 17x9 rear wheels with 255 tires and 17x8 front wheels with 245 wide tires?

2. With the above tire and basic accompanying suspension mods (like coilovers and minimum bushings), how much better is the drive experience with a turbo kit making ~300-320whp on the street?

09-01-2014, 09:06 AM	#1
iBoost Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Drives: Subaru Forester XT Location: Texas Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Test drove a 2014 BRZ...not worth $20,000 I believed the hype about the Subaru BRZ / Toyota FRS models. Being a car enthusiast myself, who drives a 2004 Subaru Forester XT (stock auto) and a Turbocharged Toyota Soarer making 600hp (manual transmission), I was interested in the BRZ as a new project car I can turbo charge and daily drive. Why was I so interested? I like the "glued-to-the-ground" driving feeling of the Subaru boxer engine layout (i.e. low center of gravity) in my turbo Forester and am always impressed how well it grips during turns for being so high off the ground. Plus, the lighter weight of this '04 Forester XT and faster acceleraton than the newer heavier XT's left me with a good overall impression. So, when I learned this Subaru BRZ also has a boxer engine with direct injection, better gas mileage than either of my cars, cheaper maintenance via 2-less spark plugs than my Toyota Soarer + easier oil change with oil filter locaion, is ~600 pounds lighter (-700lbs compared to my Toyota Soarer 2JZ car) with a better chassis and lower center of gravity, a lighter RWD drivetrain, and Trunk with fold-down rear seats utility, I thought this new ft86 was a recipe for perfection. Naturally, I test drove a 2014 Subaru BRZ (6 speed manual transmission) with less than 20 miles on the odometer... And Boy was I disappointed during the test drive. Here is why: DISLIKES 1. Underpowered: The fact that Subaru / Toyota put such a horribly WEAK output motor in this car and chassis is sacrilege. It ruined the driving experience for me big time. It was like giving an obese person ballerina soft-thin shoes and expecting them to run a marathon with those no-pad-like skins on their feet. In this BRZ, I could not get the car to "run" to my liking with such a weak-output motor. This is SACRILEGE Subaru/Toyota, you hear me?! 2. Sloppy Transmission Shifting Feel: The transmission would not engage or disengage easily during differnt rpms' and loads that were not the car's natural shift points. So, I had to rev-match the engine for smoother shifts. I was expecting a better quality and smoother shift experience from such a nice looking and high priced car (dealer new price = $30,995). I question anyone's integrity saying the stock-original Subaru BRZ 6-speed manual transmission is the best shifting transmission they've ever used. LOL! 3. Suspension Noise: Everytime I or the Dealership Salesman got into and out of the car there was a very audible Creaking sound from under the car. Plus, taking any turn in a spirited fashion that induced some body roll resulted in a loud crunching / grinding noise coming from the wheel well area under the most stress. 4. Bouncy ride above 35mph: Although the steering response felt quick in the BRZ, the overall ride felt unnecessarily bouncy on the street when going above 35mph. In this stock form, I don't think it would be as comfortable as my Forester or modified Toyota Soarer for long road trips. 5. Less Grip and Rear-End Losing Traction during Turns: The rear end of the car would lose traction on any spirited-driving street turn (Yes, traction control was ON). This was a let down because I expected this car to grip the turns better without losing traction. In fact, after the test drive I took my Subaru Forester XT on the same turn and achieved a higher speed +7mph with no loss of traction. My "old" Forester SUV gripped the turn better much to my surprise! To be fair, I was not aware of the tire pressures in each car so this could also be a contributing factor. Nevertheless, the tendency of the BRZ's rear wheels to lose traction on a turn sooner than I expected was disappointing. 6. Reliability problems: The reported gasket-material leaks from new BRZ motors mentioned by the honest Salesman and the reported AVCS failures from the Subaru / Toyota Scion community certainly didn't inspire me with confidence that this car would be as reliable as I hoped...especially boosted from 320whp[93 pump] to 400whp[e85]. 7. Cramped Interior Feeling during entry & exit: After adjusting the seat and steering wheel for the perfect driver position, my knees would always hit the dash part next to the door as I exited the vehicle. I had to twist my hips to avoid hitting this part of the BRZ whereas in my Toyota Soarer and Subaru Forester, I can slide out in comfort. Despite these negatives about the BRZ, here is what I liked about the car: LIKES 1. Steering Response and Feel: The initial turn-in is GREAT in this car and just made me want to approach turns at higher speeds than I ordinarily would in other cars. Also, the steering wheel ergonomics are fantastic and the ability to telescopically adjust it forward/back/up/down rocks. 2. Driver position: It seems well thought-out in this car and truly felt like a "driver's car" the minute I sat in it and gripped the steering wheel. I had good visibility of the road in front of me and everything seemed well within arms reach. 3. Tire Pressure Sensors: ..Great to have these in a true Driver's car. 4. Driver Control: Although the rear-end of the car slides out too much for my liking on the oem tires/wheels, it was still very easy to control the skid and recover with almost-effortless steering input. 5. Conversation Quiet: I noticed some typical road-noise frequencies were not as audible in the BRZ as they are in my other 2 cars. It was ever-so-slightly easier to carry on a conversation with the passenger at highway cruising speeds although I could hear other noises outside this "conversation-like" frequency spectrum. So, it felt slightly quieter in this frequency range, but not-so-quiet hearing the suspension grinding noise on sharp turns and common road noise. I'm interested to see the results of a frequency spectrum analysis performed inside the car to see which sound frequencies are louder than others. 6. Seats: The front seats felt snug, comfortable, and secure. Decision Time Would I buy it for $30,000? Heck NO Would I buy it for $20,000? no. How about a used good condition BRZ or F-RS for $14,000? maybe. Why do I think the BRZ / FRS is not worth even $20k? I just cannot ignore the "complete package" aspect of a car. If it's weak in a vital area, then why should I pay more for it? From a "project car" persepctive, I've learned the less mods & money I put into the project car to achieve my goals, the sooner I get to enjoy the reward and put that extra money into fuel (for more driving fun) and weekend track events. Therefore, I have to succumb to the reality that cars like a used Mazda Miata MX5's (1 example) are a better value as a project car because one can purchase it for half the price of a used BRZ / FRS, turbocharge it, and still reap the benefits of a 300 pound lighter car than the BRZ / FRS while having spent less to get the desired performance. I haven't ruled out the BRZ / FRS, but in stock form it just didn't "wow" me like the magazine and blog reviews said it would. QUESTIONS for you modded BRZ & FRS owners 1. How much better does the Street handling GRIP improve on your FRS / BRZ's when you add say 17x9 rear wheels with 255 tires and 17x8 front wheels with 245 wide tires? 2. With the above tire and basic accompanying suspension mods (like coilovers and minimum bushings), how much better is the drive experience with a turbo kit making ~300-320whp on the street? Last edited by iBoost; 09-01-2014 at 12:11 PM.