[wheelhaus]

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

When white folks have been marginalized and oppressed in the same way they oppressed others while suffering from similiar socio-economic outcomes as Native Americans and black folks, I'd say that being pro-white probably won't be considered an issue. This source of pride comes from a place where societal norms that place non-whites on lower tier of the social hierarchy and the refusal to be treated as less than equally.

You wanna know why it's not the same thing? Because of shit like this:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/13/doll.study/

So instead of moving forward, we need to go backward first? Lets punish later (mostly innocent) generations for the sins of the forefathers. In some ways, whites actually are treated as less than equal because we get excluded from all sorts of black-only or race-specific conventions and programs. I understand the point that these conventions are in response to historical pro-white societal norms, but it still a valid point regardless. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Continuing to push racial separation, racial exclusivity, or forced integration is what I'm disagreeing with. Maybe I'm looking at it from a too optimistic point of view. But, pro-white conventions are slowly being broken down as time passes and I'm 100% OK with it, I just don't think it's fair to think we will only be equal when I have whip marks on my back, because I've been against racism for my entire life.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

Talking about anti-white sentiment is like saying there's a war on christmas while standing next to a 40ft tall christmas tree with a table menorah next to it.

You're the one that made the ridiculous statements. I'm just following you down the rabbit hole because you're steering the discussion in that direction.

So now we go full circle again and your solution is to not use labels.

Are you saying Christianity in the US overshadows other religions and that Christianity is what sets many social standards? If so, it's a good analog to which I completely agree. Personally I'm Agnostic bordering Atheist, which may be relevant to the same analog considering my perspective, but I'll leave religion for another discussion.

I'm still lost on the "ridiculous" part...

And yes I do believe removing labels will help, whether you agree or not. It's not the singular solution, but a step.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

Well, considering all the studies on hiring practices when it comes to race, the person of color generally needs to be even MORE qualified than the white person to even get a call back. When it's easier for a formerly incarcerated white guy to get a call back than a black guy with no record and identical qualifications, we have a problem.

Places I've worked turned away white offenders with records, and even firing them after months of employment when a background check showed they lied about it. Many of my previous employers (unfortunately not all) could give zero fucks about race, the majority just want someone who was competent, intelligent, trustworthy and reliable. I've watched people of all races rise quickly from entry level positions based on these characteristics.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

That's what a human resources department, company policies, and employee handbooks are for. Besides, who cares what the fired employee thinks when employers tend to have disproportionate bargaining power in the employer/employee relationship to begin with, while having most states being At-Will employment? But from all information we have on how black folks face increased scrutiny compared to other races, it's not a far stretch to say that they're allowed to fuck up less.

Or allowed to fuck up more because nobody wants it to turn into a racial thing by firing him for a small offense. I've seen white employees fired for saying something offensive, making small mistakes, and black employees get away with murder before being written up or terminated. It's a double standard, but not always in the direction you're implying.

The whole at-will thing is a cop out on the employers part. My wife is a school teacher and due to the corrupt school board that was elected (by questionable means) for her district, they no longer recognize tenure and the teacher's union now has zero power. It's essentially becoming an at-will workplace and policies are being turned upside down. She could be fired for no reason and would have a difficult or impossible time defending herself.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

Data and studies simply don't back your opinions and all opinions aren't equal. It's not like we're discussing why our favorite flavor of ice cream is the best.

So what's wrong with thinking outside the box? Studies typically only expose generalities relevant to the point that's being proven/disproven. I was taught to think differently and analyze situations from different angles, and it's worked to my benefit most of the time.

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

It's strawberry btw.

Mine is Neapolitan. JK. Cookies n Cream, for real lol

Originally Posted by AznBRZer

LOLZ@"anti-white rhetoric" and "my own hatred for white people." One would think that I was talking about putting them in concentration camps or how they should be enslaved and how they're naturally inferior to the Negroid and Mongolian races from the way you talk.

I'm trying to drop some knowledge and get you to think more critically about your thoughts on racism, but I guess that means I just hate whitey.

No I sincerely appreciate it. But it's hard to not get defensive when one's "opinions" and personal experiences are constantly berated.

And anti-white sentiment is exactly how it comes across when you refer to whites so generally and in such a negative light that we're all painted as bigots only seeking to further our own selfish goals by subjugating everyone and everything within our reach.