Quote:
Originally Posted by campy
I own an old-ish 911. For proof (and because pictures are cool), here's a shot of me driving it poorly around an autocross track:
This is a 1996 993 c2. It's an absolute blast to drive. Having the engine in the back allows you to point the car in the direction you want to go, hit the gas, and then go without any tailsliding. The engine is peppy and it has enough horsepower to keep you excited on the street and on the track. Mine has had a bit of work done to it, but from what I remember, it was reasonably comfortable (for a sports car) on stock suspension. It's also a head-turner. I've watched random people come up and take pictures with it. Plus I once won best car at a Subaru show.
As for the bad, everything is expensive, you will need a mechanic with special, Porsche-specific tools, and the interior layout and materials are crap. Sitting inside it really makes you understand how Porsche almost went bust a while ago; luxury car prices and economy car interior. The BRZ's interior, on the other hand, is set up very well. It's comfy, the seats really hold you, and personally, my FRS fits me like a glove. The Porsche's interior works, but it just isn't as well designed as the FRS/BRZ.
I know you're going for a 70s or 80s vintage, and those come with their own sets of problems, like with any classic car. Classics don't make good DDs.
If I had to choose between owning either a BRZ or my Porsche, I would pick the BRZ simply because it is more comfortable, practical, reliable, and economic. Keep in mind what you will be doing with this car and what you will need from it.
But if you're just buying it as a weekend car, then definitely get the Porsche. |
Hahaha, it was funny seeing that picture and then reading about how the 911 won't oversteer
Nice slide! I know what you mean, though: I'm somewhat familiar with old 911s. My mom drives a 1970 911T (with a Sportomatic gearbox, no less, as well as 911S suspension), and my dad's got a 1997 (IIRC) 993 that's had some suspension tweaks done plus an RS clutch and lightweight flywheel.
I love the 993. I've driven ours in many scenarios (mostly weekend fun driving, but also on a couple of roadtrips and occasionally around town as well), and every time I climb out of it I can't help but feel that it's a perfect road car: it's power-to-weight ratio strikes that perfect balance between providing enough grunt to be exciting, but not so much that the car can be driven quickly without working it. Same with the power-to-grip ratio... I can't remember exactly what tyre sizes we're running right now, but basically there's just enough grip that the car doesn't feel loose, but will move around if you intentionally work hard at provoking it. Then there's that engine, which is also perfect: it provides enough torque in the mid-range that you don't feel the need to wring it out around town, but is also happy to pull to redline. It's also one of the best-sounding engines I've ever heard (ours has Fister's stage 2 muffler conversion, which really lets the engine speak its mind).
If I had the money, I might well consider a 993. There was a gorgeous one listed on Rennlist the other day... forty grand for a well-sorted one configured almost exactly like ours. If I had the money I'd have been sorely tempted by it. Unfortunately, 993s are out of my price range. I'm not as bothered by this as I might otherwise be since there's one in my family that I get to drive fairly often. One day I may buy one of my own, but in the meantime I'm sort of limited to things that are worth approximately the same amount as my BRZ or less.
I agree with you regarding the BRZ's interior: our cars are extremely comfortable. I, too, find that my BRZ fits me like a glove-- it's a very apt analogy: it really does feel like the BRZ just wraps around you and puts you in the perfect position for controlling the car. On the other hand, I don't find old 911 interiors uncomfortable by any means. They're certainly not fancy, and the seating position is an acquired taste, but I love those simple VDO gauges and the general austerity of the cabin. They're a lot like our BRZs, really... they've got everything you need to drive the car, and not much you don't. I do prefer the outward visibility of the 911 cabin to the BRZ's by a large margin as well.
Regarding reliability, I never got the impression that older Porsches were unreliable if properly maintained. Are they that bad? I know that every engine has weak points, and that the 2.7 liter engines are just generally maintenance-intensive, but it seems like it's not that hard to find cars where common weak points have been addressed or retrofitted (newer chain tensioners, valve covers, etc). Similarly, I know the 915 gearbox needs to be treated properly to avoid accelerated wear, but I already tend to treat gearboxes fairly carefully (even on the BRZ I like to take my time with shifts unless I really
need to accelerate quickly for a freeway ramp or something), so I didn't think that would be a huge problem. Have you had any surprising issues with your 993?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bg8780
I was looking at 996's before I bought my BRZ. I too struggled with this decision. My dad ended up getting a 2003 996 Targa for around $30k. IMS bearing was already taken care of and everything so he got a pretty good deal. This is my first car I bought on my own so I need the reliability for a DD and a warranty should anything go wrong. I'm glad I bought the BRZ but driving the 996 still makes me wonder what life could have been like with the engine in the back. lol If it's your die hard DD, go with a BRZ.
It's also my lifelong dream to end up with a 2011 GT3 RS 4.0 in the garage. But I'd be happy with a regular 997 too if the funds aren't available for the 4.0l
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996s are an incredible bargain in terms of car for the money. It's not very hard to find cars that have had the IMS/RMS issues addressed, and they never cost very much money. I've seen a few 996s on Rennlist that I've been tempted to buy just on principle, despite the fact that I don't want a 996! My reason for not buying a 996 is that in my mind they're just too modern to justify trading off the practicality of the BRZ. The only reason I'm considering swapping out of my BRZ is that it would be fun to drive a car that's "worse"-- harder to drive, un-computerized, etc. The 996 just didn't fit that bill. In terms of performance per-dollar, though, the 996 is an insanely good deal.