Quote:
Originally Posted by robot
We assume it is shit because all past companies that described their product in a similar fashion ended up being shit. It is a pattern and a red flag to suspension geeks.
Good suspension companies/products are usually advertised as:
-Being tested on the track...with feedback
-Having a good warranty
-Being designed with proper math/modeling, proper drivers (not just the jackass down the street who say "it is stiff so it should be good", proper consideration for actual use.
-Damper settings and springs that work together.
-Transparency with regards to spring rates and damper curves
For subaru the two companies (in the US) that have met these criteria for the past 6+ years are TiC and Racecomp. I would call them suspension designers. They don't actually manufacture most of their damper/spring items. They use tried and true companies that have been building consistent dampers and springs for years (AST/KW/etc.).
Red flags:
-Advertising numbers of clicks (see my quoted post)
-Advertising how low you can go (low =/= good handling)
-Advertising stiffness over stock
-Advertising vs explaining
-Not showing damper curves (even when asked)
-Not providing spring rates (even when asked)
-Not able to explain why certain spring rates are better or worse
-Not able to talk about tradeoffs in design
-"oooh look at those welds" (because as you know everyone is an expert at the prettiness level of a weld)
-"oooh look at that bright red/green/yellow/etc metalic paintjob"
-Not telling you what the clicks adjust
-Not rebuildable
Now, it could be that these aren't crap. It could be that they are good. Buuut if they aren't then the advertising needs to be changed so that the pattern of crap is not so closely matched.
Now I have to look up that crotchety guy who dynos everything and says that most dampers are crap...
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They have dyno data on a number of their popular coilover applications on their website. As well as data on their linear springs and their compression length. I am not an expert on suspension design but if you look there is a lot of data and graphs to be found. I am assuming they don't have the gt86 dyno numbers yet because they are newer and haven't had time, as updating their website is not their top priority most of the time. A lot of their parts are designed well because they design them to overcome flaws of products already on the market. Sure, their customer base is meant more for those just trying to slam their car. But I don't think we should call them crap. As for their advertising style...I think that is what they are going for. It is flamboyant, just like the design and style of all of their products. Its the way they do things...With some stuff written in japanese (I assume) and all that trying to cater to the jdm fan boy crowd...Sure it makes them look juvenile, but I'm sure it works for their target audience. This all being said, of course PBM don't make the best coilovers on the market. But they are solid pieces for the prices, and I have heard great things about their customer service.