Quote:
Originally Posted by diss7
What makes me disappoint, is how badly the car now handles when given a workout. Taking it around roads I'm can really hammer on, it's noticeably worse. I do have some parts coming to correct what I am hoping is causing these problems, but I'm really surprised at how different the car is behaving.
Is it possible to correct what riding at this height causes?
To quote myself from the post I left in the RSR review thread...
I'm not trying to have the best or fastest car, I'm prepared to lose some handling from an optimal setup to run this height, but I'd like that to be only a small concession, not the massive concession I feel this setup has made.
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I'd really like to clarify a couple of things.
The Black-i is a STREET specification coil over system, which is designed to satisfy the users who are into the fashionable trend of lowering a car extensively for the visual and stylistic elements. On an Scion FRS/Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86 siblings, like most other cars, do have very inherent issued that is outside of the shocks and struts, such as dynamic and static alignment going excessively out of performance oriented parameters.
And one should ALWAYS know going in, that ANY suspension drop that is as excessive as over 40mm in ride height, and modified with shocks and springs only, is going to have decreased levels of performance. This is because the suspension arms, various alignment links, sheer space under the wheel housing, and other factors will reach a point where the ideal requirements are not met. The Black-i are designed for those who will ignore or further modify on his/her own, about the performance aspect, as there are some enthusiasts, who simply want a very visually stunning car, that can be driven comfortably on the public roads.
That being said, the highest setting of the Black-i is near 40mm, so at this height that is closer to normal, the Black-i does retain the vehicle's alignment quite well, and can serve as normal suspension, though it isn't the primary role for this... The Black-i was designed for people who just wants to go lower than this. Which is why the spec starts at 40mm below to a whopping 55~80mm below, which at maximum drop, is in a territory of requiring cutting and welding, and lots of suspension arm modifications too in various places.
Now that being said, so why are Black-i available then? If all it does is decrease performance?
It is because it isn't catered to the folks who want ultimate performance or normal functionality. It is catered to those who love the hot rod sled, the lowered to the max look, just as there are those who love to set cars up on airbags, or cut and hack a truck to drop a body or put gull-wing doors on the cars. There is nothing wrong with choosing to do that, and Black-i are designed for those who go beyond the normal parameters to have that look, the stance, and to help people who do this, to find the best possible ride on such goals that have very limited suspension stroke, and out of spec dynamic alignment, to have the most decent ride so it is at least useful still, as a street car. It is designed as a capable tool and part to handle a drop that is bolt-on street-able spec, at 40~45mm or so and still be a comfortable street car with stunning looks. And just like Sports-i, the track-ready sibling that can take to the performance edges, this Black-i is designed to go beyond that for those who want to delve further into styling edges, by further going into that realm by fabricating arms, hammering and cutting, and fabricating their own rides to extremes in style in the very different world of custom-cars, and if one fancies, correcting all of the inherent alignment issues even at this height with highly extensive mods in other areas, to actually make it handle at ridiculous height too, as seen in some of the highly modified D1 cars with rails just skimming the ground... But, as for simple bolt-on, one must always be aware that there are critical parameters which can't be overcome simply by installing coil-overs, and with that in mind, if Black-i is the only component being used, there are limits to what can be done.
So please don't make any assumptions whatsoever that the Black-i is good for any motorsports activity. It isn't designed for that at all. It is a good product for the enthusiasts and builders who build show cars, and enjoy a road car that is extremely low, and willing to live with limitations inherent to stock chassis components, or do much more to the cars to make things work.
The Sports-i is designed around a very different principle... I have optimized the Sports-i to be a very capable road vehicle, with road manners, communication, tactile response, and overall performance. This is why the Sports-i with different specifications of piston length, valve rates, spring rates, and geared to perform on road comfortably and has the upper ceiling to accommodate track uses, and optional rates to take it even more towards motorsports oriented uses.
These two coilover systems are VERY different in goals and targeted intended use.
As such, the mentions and promotions, accolades should never overlap for the two very distinct products, as they aim to do very different things to a very different types of enthusiasts.
While the mono-tube patented design is very capable and ideal for use in all of RSR's products, and is the type of design RSR takes pride in building in-house. The settings, and application designs are very different for each product goal, and each vehicle applications. And while other suspension makers might mention otherwise, and sell you a single product that can do it all.
As a outside consultant, and assistant R&D engineer for RS-R, I feel that all-mighty, do-it-all suspension is all smoke and mirrors of marketing by others and is only possible on Alladdin's Magic Carpet.
For the rest of us, we simply cater to a very focused and well-informed audience, with goals that are pin-point and realistic.
This is why we have two very distinct coil-over lineup for the FT86 and other cars. So that each can do the job it was intended very well, and not claim be the magic solution that will cover true track performance, and be a stunning rod-sled.
Now, many of the replies given to you by folks chiming in on this thread are very helpful for you in taking it further and improving things that are inherent issued OTHER than just shocks and springs, to make improvements at your intended ride-height, and I think it's great that there are smaller firms who car intent on making low-volume parts and tools to make changes that are more drastic, and truly useful in making your car more customized and individualistic. I think the more you develop this car, you will understand more that the RS-R Black-i is an excellent coil-over system that will simply keep up and cater to your needs, as you delve more and more into getting things more dialed in with items that overcome inherent issues of arms, frame, body and alignment at extreme drop levels.