Quote:
Originally Posted by Dephective
High static compression and boost used to be thought of as a no-no, even at lower boost pressures. This creates very high in-cylinder pressures and lots of knock. So conventional wisdom said lower the compression and then throw boost at it. With direct injection, you get better fuel atomization as well as better in-cylinder cooling effect, both drastically lower your chances of knock. Why do you think people on stock block are making 400whp at like 12psi? Higher compression also increases the torque and responsiveness with the turbo as well. and Crawford was one of those with conventional wisdom. They had no experience with direct injection before.
Uh, clearly you've never seen a K-series motor, an F20C or F22C1 with cams and valvetrain, a BEAMS black or redtop. None of those take 30K to build, not even close. The motor I roughly spoke of in my earlier post would cost around $12K assuming you could at least remove and reinstall the motor yourself to cut some cost. Whether you're going to boost or stay N/A, the build should be the same, not just cheap out and put aftermarket rods pistons and sleeves. Block should still be honed for proper ring seating, and measured for clearances, valve train should still be upgraded.
And as far as cams not being available, sure the cheapest way is to machine OEM units, but in that case you could always just machine yours. Also, apparently you aren't aware that cams don't have to be machined, they can be made from scratch, which isn't necessarily any more difficult. COMP Cams makes there's from a blank metal rod (with your choice of alloy, forged or cast). Cam design isn't rocket science either, it takes professionals a day, 2-3 tops to design one in CAD once they have the stock dimensions and intended use of the design. I'm sure if wasn't stupid aggressive they would market the design as a "shelf" item and you wouldn't incur development costs.
Also like has been stated before TODA Racing is well on the way to offering cams.
Even if no stroker kit was possible, cams that breath till 8400rpm (not just possible, realistic low ball) will yield a decent gain in power, and that would still be streetable (this is of course subjective) I actually like the sound of a lumpy cammed out idle. Low end torque is just for fuel efficiency, if I was to pass, just drop down a gear and wind it up.
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Thanks for your condescending tone. "Uh..." However, building a K20 engine that isn't streetable isn't what people are looking for here (cams and springs causing idle oil pressure...). They also aren't making any numbers much higher than 215whp on standard available fuels. Also, 12k to build an N/A engine to make 200~whp is not good in any way. Any FI kit for this car yields higher results for less than half the cost.
As for cams, I'm well aware of the manufacturing process. I was speaking more in current availability for this platform. I know that there isn't a huge demanding for cams so I know that some of the larger manufacturers are looking to get new OEM cores to start their prototypes. As of now, you can't buy them as a replacement part. That's not to say someone won't develop them from a blank core but it's not happening anytime soon.
You're all worried about voiding your warranties and staying N/A but good luck on a warranty claim running cams, pistons, rods. The bolt-on tunes seem pretty good, don't get me wrong. But staying N/A looking at cams and all these other mods that will yield very little results for high costs isn't in anyone's best interest. The only time N/A will become feasible is when there is an entire after market valvetrain available and the revs can be raised (with a cam of course). Even then, a bolt-on turbo kit at 6-8psi will make more power safely all day long.
I ran into this "N/A" issue in the Mitsu 4G Eclipse GT V6 crowd. A big N/A V6 that nothing made a huge difference on. There was a supercharger kit but the company that designed it didn't even make an intercooler for it lol.
All in all, N/A is good if you want to run some bolt-ons but don't expect some miracle cam to do anything on an N/A 2.0L. In N/A format, this platform will never exceed 210whp. This is good power and I'd be happy with that, but FI is definitely the way to go for this engine to make any sort of substantial power IMO