Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug
I went into "dealer mode" tonight before a service appointment in the morning, and I timed myself doing it. It took 14 minutes for me to swap the supercharger with the Perrin inlet tube, disconnect the controller's cable harness, and disconnect and stash the display for my advanced monitor.
Half of that time was me wrestling with my nemesis: the crankcase breather hose.
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Fenton did that in 2 minutes flat, no exaggeration!
J/K
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary in NJ
I choose one chart, it was the graph showing 205.7 HP that is listed on the first page of the thread. There may be better or worse graphs...but I chose this one.
I charted the results below. Note, I chose 500 rpm increments, and there are better results between those intervals. But Fenton's claims are supported. For example the chart below shows a ESC torque at 4000 and 4500 at 182, but between those points the graph shows peek ESC torque of 184 while OEM torque at 4250 is 110...a 74 ft-lb increase or 67%. On this graph the gain is 50% to 69% in the torque dip and 24% at redline. Fenton's claim in the post above is "50 to 85 percent torque gain in the dip leveling to 25-35 percent gain at redline". The chart below supports a claim in this range. I'm sure there is a chart showing a 85% gain in the torque dip...but at this point it's on you to show me where I'm wrong.
My point, Fenton is being upfront with his data and his claims
...........OEM HP...OEM TQ...ESC HP...ESC TQ...d HP...d TQ...% HP...% TQ
3000.......75.........131........100........175... ......25.....44......33%.....34%
3500.......80.........117........117........175... ......37.....58......46%.....50%
4000.......82.........108........137........182... ......55.....74......67%.....69%
4500.......95.........120........157........182... ......62.....62......65%.....52%
5000......125........133........175........182.... .....50......49......40%....37%
5500......135........126........185........175.... .....50......49......37%.....39%
6000......145........126........180........168.... .....35......42......24%.....33%
6500......160........126........202........165.... .....42......39......26%.....31%
7000......168........125........205........155.... .....37......30......22%.....24%
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Hey Gary,
If you wanted to defend Fenton's claims, you could not have picked a better dyno sheet! The one you chose shows the largest hp/tq gains over stock. Even then it still doesn't actually support his claims and I thank you for taking the time to post this
best case data.
Still, what I see when looking at all of the Phantom ESC dyno results posted to date are TQ gains of 30-70% in the dip and 15-25% near redline on the Dyno Dynamics sheets and TQ gains of 25-50% in the dip and 15-25% near redline on the Dynojet sheets. Maybe it's my OCD showing itself but I just can't concede that 25-70% can be called 50-85% nor is 15-25% close enough to say 25-35%.
I don't believe the exaggeration was intentional nor do I wish to split hairs over a few percentage points but the figures quoted were just to far off for me to ignore.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fenton
Sorry for generalizing and giving a range. Depending on the dyno you look at (tuned or untuned) the results very.
On the latest run we hit 190tq at 4250rpm compare that to my stock run on the same dyno dynamics and its 105 tq at 4250rpm. I think when you do the Math on that you will find that it is indeed 80 percent(with TQ300 system). This is why i gave a range... TQ250 system is usually around 50 percent gain in torque from 4500 rpm and below.
Talking about hp, my highest run on the tq300(fully stock) was 207hp(@6750), my highest run STOCK on the same dyno was 165 at 7100.....at 6750 it was only 159hp.....thus a 30% increase.....and again why i claimed a large range. I guess i could have said between 2000 RPM and 7500RPM you will experience a 20% to 50% increase in tq and power worst case.... but what fun is that. My numbers are put up for everyone to see, i havent held anything back.... thanks for keeping me honest
This isnt an exact science.... every car is different.... my car seems to do very well for stock but losses top end to some of the guys with full exhaust.
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Sorry to bust your balls over a few percentage points but when stating a range of TQ gained within the TQ dip rpm range you can't accurately say that 25-70% is 50-85%. You seem to be quoting maximum peak TQ gains as they vary from different ESC's and dyno results including unseen new prototype results compared to an old baseline with 5 ft lbs subtracted and 5% gain added. This is getting far too muddled for me. Please carry on.
I have only one more question for you, if you'll indulge me. Why is the 175 ft lbs ESC called the TQ250 and the 190ft lb model called the TQ300? What, if any, is the numerical significance in those model names?
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