Looking at YOU errrr...umm...Daewoo.

My fellow board member, I'm all for a new S-chassis. I'm almost in shock that the BRZ/FR-S came out BEFORE Nissan's S-chassis replacement. Last I followed it, they were making more headway than Toyota/Subaru. It was somewhat out of the blue that Toyota/Subaru accelerated their sports car program and from mule to production in, essentially, a blink of an eye. I recall reading that Nissan was putting their project on hold when ToMoCo/FHI announced (in secret) that they were working on an affordable sports car. Fast forward 3 years later and we now have BRZs terrorizing the tracks.

While I don't pledge allegiance to any manufacturer, drivetrain, or engineering principle. If a tool does what it's supposed to do, then it doesn't matter how it gets it done and who makes it. To me, it's about which car brings the biggest smiles for miles.

You're doing it wrong. :bonk:

Scion dealers won't sell the FRS at invoice.. They *typically* don't sell anything at invoice.. They have the "pure price" system for a reason.

Offering a full cash payment give zero extra incentive for the dealership. They would prefer you finance through them so their finance department can at least earn a free from the wholesale lender.

So you've really only made things worse for yourself. Hence I say, "you're doing it wrong!". :clap:

OK let me be specific how each failed to hit the mark which the FT86 has hit:

RX-8: Fuel economy terrible, reliability, imho kind of ugly
S2000 and Miata: Too small to be practical DD's
Gen Coupe: Too heavy more of a GT but IMHO closest to the mark
370z: Too heavy

I'm still mad at them for turning the GT-R introduction away from being a $65K everyday sports car to $80K+ with mark-ups and very hard to get.

I am genuinely interested if there is any source of information that there will in fact be a 2014 model.

As much as I would like to assume that there will be new model next year, it doesn't make sense to me when they can't fill 2013 BRZ pre-orders for 10 months.

I truly believe this will stir the competitive juices of many marques. Think about it, the BRZ/FRS offers far less for far more. 25-30K for this car? I can see the other manufacturers wringing their sweaty little hands thinking how little they can offer with re-heated suspension, weezing little engine and uttering "ya know, it pays homage to our roots" along with a very "sporting body profile" and gosh, it'll drift! The bean counters are gonna have to change their undies...:barf:

I owned an S-chassis car, Redtop swapped S13 coupe, and I would've loved to have Nissan revive the S-chassis cars principle, even if it would be a smaller Z-type car. Hell, they could develop a new engine for it and revive the SR nomenclature, have it be 2.0 liters, turbocharged for the new "Entry level" sports car. They could even reduce the liters to use it as an "eco" engine in the Altima and their hybrid cars to mitigate costs. Just imagine how many they'd sell if they could market a new SR20 engine in a "200Z" that makes 250hp with turbocharging, DI, RWD, and weighing in around 2800-2900lbs.

Well Honda already has a rwd concept: the Beat. Although it's supposed to be electric in some way, it may just be a KERS, which would actually be kinda cool. All they have to do is actualize the car, drop in a worthy K-series engine, and bring it to the market next year.
As for a new Integra, they basically have that already... The ILX. It's based off the civic, starts at around the price of the BRZ, and it's offered in a sport trim with the K24, aka type-s. Pretty sure we'll some some tuned versions on the streets soon.

Let me preface the following statement with I know it sounds kind of Fanboy-ish. In my humble opinion, both the GTR and the 370 are most certainly near if not at the top of ther intended segments (Much to the dismay of the car in my name :mad0259: ). I think they should throw out something in the 20-30k sports car space and try for the monopoly!

Now back to non fanboy talk.

I will reiterate that I would be a fan of another quality car that was slightly different than the existing ones in this sub 30k space. A new S would be a great addition.

:word: It doesn't make too much sense to be a fanboy when there are so many good options out there. But I have to admit, between an FR of performance level X and an FF of performance level 1.1X, I would most likely take the FR. I just happen to have some emotional attachment to them. (I happen to like RR's too though. Think GT3)

Do we think that overall the members of this board would agree that more cars in this space is better? Or are we of the mind that our Toyobaru, the miata, GenCoupe, and Mustang V6* are good enough for this space?

I've heard that but I almost file those under the previous NSX rumors (remember how many there were?). Now, the new, upcoming NSX does look like a real badass and if it's based off their GT car, it sure will be.

I had hoped that they'd do something great for the new Si (2013) but it seems they missed the mark, bad. Lots of guys were putting the CR-V K24 long block into the K20 setups and having good results. Honda tried to do that but made a car that was even more of a tuner nightmare (integrated exhaust manifold, blah). Just a stupid move to make on their only tuner car left in production.

That being said, it's a sad period for Honda as there is no more RSX-S, the TL Type-S is meh, the Accord V6 is still a heavy Accord, S2000 gone, and the NSX is going to be out of the price range of 99.9% of the people interested in a new car. The CR-Z has a cool concept and maybe they can pull it off with a Mugen-spec but I still doubt it. The Insight isn't even a good hybrid car (Prius C has it beat)!

I am a Honda fanboy and if the FR-S didn't come around I was debating a S2000 but I didn't want a convertible as my DD. Even still, I was about in love with one enough to do it, glad I waited!

personally I can't wait to see what the other companies come out with. One of the reasons I wanted to get my BRZ right away was so that I'll have it paid off by the time these other options are hitting the market. I figure I'll enjoy the BRZ while the market sorts itself out and then see what's out there in a few years when I'm ready to move on.

Yep I feel the same way. I have been given a delivery time frame of October. If I dont get my car by December, I am not going to want it as much. Then I would rather have the updated 2014 model.

The Miata is really the only other option I'd consider. The Genesis and the Mustang are too heavy, not to mention the V6 Genesis is the better of the Genesis models. I think all the import cars should have some form of a Sub $30k FR coupe. It seems that any American attempt results in a car that is almost 1000lbs heavier and more expensive(V6 Camaro, V6 Challenger, V6 Mustang).

Any German or Italian attempts would inevitably be overpriced due to the "Badge" factor. I have no clue how Alfa plans to market the next gen Spider. Volkswagen could conceivably enter the market with an Audi variant in addition to the Volkswagen model. Too bad the new 2013 Beetle is still FF, it actually looks more like the classic Beetle than the older "New Beetle".

Honda has absolutely nothing to offer in a segment they used to be an expert of, enthusiast motoring. They let the S2k die a slow death, their Si models aren't cutting it anymore, and their CRZ hits none of the marks it aimed for.

Mazda needs a new RX car or something slightly above the Miata. I'd be for a Miata if they had a coupe version. As it stands, to get a hardtop Miata with options to match the BRZ Limited's standard features, you'd be $1k over the BRZ's MSRP. A new RX car that would share the new 2014 Miata's platform would allow Mazda to lower the Miata's MSRP, slot in a higher performance car at around $27k-$28k, and allow more room for growth. Granted, Mazda is kind of in the same boat as Subaru as far as cash.

Kia could use its Hyundai connection to introduce a sub $20k turbo I4. Base model would start at $18k, then a slightly more powerful, slightly upscale interior model at $22k. It's "R version" if you will. The Kia Agila/Agila R or something.

Mitsubishi is on life support, so ignore them.

Basically Honda, Mazda, Volkswagen, Kia, and Nissan have a good opportunity to take advantage of the Toyobaru's new slice of the market. It's already proven that there's still a market for this type of vehicle, hopefully they'll have the foresight to jump in around 2014/2015 MY.

I am in favor of the former. The more variety we have, the better off we'll be.