My track Setup
 

Hello Guys

So I have tracked 3 times this season all with the same setup, just so I could learn the car more and try to tune it to my preference.

For starters this is what I was running on my car for track.

1. KWV3 set up as per Myles recommend

front compression- back off 7 clicks from full stiff.
front rebound-back off 10 clicks from full stiff

rear compression - back off 8 clicks from full stiff.
rear rebound- back off 7 clicks from full stiff.

-1.5 camber on front and -2.0 on back wheels. 0 Toe. car lowered 1.8 inches

2. XXR 530 17x8.25 et 35 with Hankook RS3 245/40/17

3. Front and rear sways by Eibach with stock endlinks

4. Hawk HP+ Stoptech brakelines and motul dot 4

5. Takeda CAI, HKS catless front, invidia cross pipe, invidia q300 catback
Perrin Pulley, Kartboy Shortshifter.

I personally think my setup is alright, but when I was on track I just can't seem to take the corners as fast as I wished it would be. I take my lines quite aggressively, hard braking, quick turn in, car pushes a little, floor the gas. I also run on VSC sport

Issues that bothers me.

1. My tires are kinda squeaking/sliding when I am turning even on my 4th lap
2. My body roll seems pretty big considering all the shit i got on.
3. with all those engine mods I still get creamed by civics on straightaways.

Can some of you track masters please sheds some light on what I can do to improve my car or myself.

For example, would upgrading the endlinks make a difference? Should I run more aggressive camber? Any other bushings or mounts I should be looking at?

P.S I apologize for my grammar or whatever mistakes that I made.

Thank you for all your help!!!!!

It's really simple, here it is. You might want to sit down for this:
Your driving sucks.

It's a shock I know, I been there. Just because you dump $$ on your car it doesn't mean it's going to go faster because of said mods.

I'm 100% sure that civic has been out on the track way more than you have.
With only 3 times out at a track your a complete noob.

But don't worry there is a fix for it, and it way fun to do. Go back out ther do more track days and autox. Ask for instructors to ride with you. They will point out the mistakes you do.

Remember there are fast cars, then there are fast drivers.

1. Those engine mods are nothing. All you have is a full exhaust, a intake, and a pulley. Chances are the civic's that are CREAMING you have the same mods AND more. Get a header and a tune and run e85. Newer civics also have 2.4 motors so they will be faster on the straight either way.
2. Camber is kind of high in the rear when compared to the front. Search alignments, usually you want more camber in the front.
3. Those pads are junk for the track. Might be good for light lapping, but not for an experienced driver.
4. Aggressive lines doesn't mean it is the fast line. You want to keep your momentum up.
5. Search Pedal dance. Ideally you don't want any electronic nannies breaking for you and slowing you down.

Best advice would be have a instructor ride along with you... and get a camera mount to record yourself driving and if possibly get some data logging.

1. Track time

2. Track time

3. Moar camber on the front

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Thank You for your blunt response, but is there any other recommendations you would give in-regarding about my car? as in suspension setup or engine mods? Also would you happen to know what might my problem be? Poor acceleration control? Thank you

You Good Sir! Thank you for your reply! So what kind of camber would you recommend? also what pads are you using that would be a better choice?
Pedal dance might be too aggressive for me as I am still a noob, perhaps just traction off would be better? Thank You

Alignment? Search and read more.
Pads? Search and read more.
Learn tire pressures also.
Maybe try traction control off, but remember it isn't 100% off. I would also suggest you make note when it turns on and off at certain points of the track and get to know the car at that limit.

An instructor would net you more time than throwing parts at it.

Piling on.

- Camber is set wrong. You want more up front. At least -2.5 if you are going to keep -2 at the rear.

- You didn't mention what your alignment for toe was.

- Squealing tires is not necessarily bad. If you are at the limit of grip they will make noise.

All that said, to echo other responses, your driving probably sucks. If you haven't ridden with an instructor do it. Also, if you have video of your track session post it up and get comments.

If you are like most beginners you are probably taking turns too tight and not letting the car run wide out of turns like it wants to. That will cost you speed.

In addition to camber, I think the bolded part above might be the problem. If you're just flooring the throttle coming out of corners in VSC sport, the car is probably cutting power keeping you from spinning.

Focus improving technique on corner exit - this will drastically improve your speeds on the following straights. I like the advice @jvincent gave above about letting the car run wide out of turns. As soon as you clip the apex, start taking out steering and adding throttle progressively. It shouldn't feel like an on-off switch.

You'll feel the car push wide as you're adding throttle. Let it carry you to the exit curbing. Also consider starting to drive without VSC as you get comfortable with car control.

The odds are most of those civics have more WHP then you, and a weight around 2100lbs(unless they are the new boats of civics). 170whp BRZ will never catch a 170whp civic in a straight line. Your speed in the straights is dependent on your corning speeds, more speed in corner = more speeds in the straights.


With leaving the VSC on, you should be COOKING the HP+(smoking pads, smell of brakes for hours ect), I did in the rain in a 15 minute session. Take the nannies off and go back to the track, start to learn your cars ability slowly now that you do not have the computer to save you, then see where you get.

The bold and the italicized are mutually exclusive.

If you want to go fast, you need to back off, and calm/smooth out your driving.

1. you run a suspension setup that heavily overloads the front before the rear.
2. you're running a softer, street suspension on the track.
3. your mods essentially do nothing for power.

1a. get a rear sway bar, and run with the pedal dance.
2a. you can do both AND rear sway bars, and set the front to soft/med and the rear to med/stiff
3a. get forced induction, or run ethanol, or both.

Thank you for your reply!

1. The reason I ran my camber like this is because my car was spinning out when I had traction off. So I was hoping to correct it with more neg at the back.
2. My toe is at 0 on all 4
3. I understand, It probably I am putting too much stress on the tires, than utilizing my car.

Guys I just want to say thank you for all your reply.

I understand that my driving sucks a big one, and that is why I am posting here to hoping to get more info and develop myself. If you have nothing productive to say, please refrain yourself by posting pointless things, and do all of us a favor and save yourself and our time.

Thank you

1. The correction for spin-outs is better driving. 99.999999% of the reason for a spin is because of something the driver did. I would change your suspension setup to something more normal.

2. You probably want to run a little bit of toe in.

3. Not sure exactly what you mean here but if you are over driving the tires, they will make a lot of noise and you won't be fast.

You haven't said if you have had any instruction. If not, get some. It will help you drive better a lot faster.

I would have also suggested that you approach your car setup progressively.

This was my second season on the track. Last year I started out with the stock tires, camber bolts up front, and upgraded brake pads and fluid. I have since upgraded the tires to something a little more grippy, but nothing nearly as sticky as the RS3s you are running. Next season I'll introduce coilovers and when the current tires are toast I'll move to a higher performance set, but still not RS3 levels of grip.

You need to learn to drive the car faster incrementally. The analogy I would make is that you have jumped into the deep end of the pool without first learning how to swim.

Admitting lack of track time and experience is the first step to improvement. Don't be like this guy:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8"]Trackday Comedy - FLAT OUT - YouTube[/ame]

Hey Mike, Thank you! thank you so much for your reply.

1. The reason I run those type of camber is because when I drive, with traction off. (holding 3 secs), my car spins out. (prob becuase I am too heavy with the gas), which leads me to believe that isn't the pedal dance even more aggressive in terms of losing the stability control, I mean I can't even contain myself with just traction off, doing the pedal dance would turn off the ABS would result in me flying across the track? would endlinks make them "perform better"?

2. Would you be able to recommend a stiffer setting for my V3? without forking out another 2-3k on a different set of coils?

3. I will be looking at FI later, but not now as I don't think I have the capability to utilize it yet, but if I do, I will definitely give you guys a shout.

1. Your car spins out because you are erratic with your steering, and are causing huge weight transfers that manifest as spins. Slow down your steering inputs. This little to do with your throttle input; you're on 245 RS3, with an essentially stock engine. You're not making enough power to spin the rear tires. The spins are a function of your steering wheel input.

2. You can always put on a 1kg/mm higher spring in the rear, or a 1kg/mm softer in the front. Based on the posts i've seen, I'd recommend NO changes for the time being, until you fix your steering input.

3. A faster car is a faster car, but a faster driver is faster in any car. Excellent decision here :thumbsup:


A better buy would be some used gopros so you can watch yourself drive, and perhaps a datalogger like the AIM Solo DL, so that your harsh inputs can be quantified into data that you can see. Data does not lie.

Something that I found helps a surprising amount is to have someone who is really good drive your car and watch how they handle it. You'll learn all kinds of things about your car and how far you can push it when you watch someone else driving it. I had no idea how lethargic I was with my steering inputs until I sat with a friend and watched how he did it and it made a big difference. Having someone more experienced drive your car may also make them able to suggest modifications you should make to help counter weaknesses they find in your setup that your inexperience may not be able to detect yet.

Guys I just wanted to say thank you for all your recommendation and support. I do have a gopro, and I have been taking videos of myself, and I do notice some improvements from day one to now, Special thanks to Mike and Jvincent for your support and recommendation.

My first coach was a bit like the video below, when to brake, turn, unwind the wheel and accelerate, this shit is hard and it's easy to think you're doing ok until something opens your eyes, whether it's a slow car blowing your doors off, a ride-along with a good driver, or some good coaching taking you into new territory.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5rpFXdWtK4"]Top Gear - James May & Jackie Stewart - Fast Driving Lesson with TVR Tuscan - YouTube[/ame]



Definitely work on driving first, try to find a group with a good reputation for local instruction. Not sure how the KW's change the dynamics but I would be surprised if it was enough to warrant the camber you've got, I would think -2 front, -1.5 rear would be a good streetable starting point once you tidy up your line.

Edit: Keep it up, awesome that you're humble, many people aren't.

My personal experience wasn't so much seeing someone drive my car fast while I rode passenger so much as feeling someone driving my car fast and what the weight shifts felt like, how the car was being balanced, etc.

But definitely +100 to instruction from someone who knows what they're doing.

^That was my big help when I had my awesome instructor. However, I was already very familiar with my local track (and weight transfer) from my sport bike days.

The big thing she showed is what the car would do on the brakes. It's nuts what a well setup car, on Rcomps can do on the brakes if you're even an INtermidate level driver like me.

She blew me away on the brake pedal, it was cool to feel what the car was capable of.

How fast is fast? Part of the problem is your perception vs your reality.

You usually drive fast when you make little mistakes. You'd be surprised at how much your lap times can improve when you drive boring and smooth.

Anyone can floor a car and accelerate. Not everyone can do the same coming out of a corner properly. A few can enter a turn correctly. The fast guys link all 3 together.

-alex

Magiclow... I like how you you've handled yourself in this thread after some of the tough love (some might go as far as saying douchy) things you've already encountered.


I think you'll find that your humble and ego-less approach will help you shorten your learning curve as you'll be able to learn and ask questions despite the judgments you may receive (especially on the internet).


My 0.02: Stop modding. Don't do anything else. As others have said, keep collecting seat time until you are consistent enough to evaluate the setup you have. I've observed noob drivers (including myself 3 track days in) aren't consistent enough with their techniques (lines/braking points/throttle application/etc) from lap to lap to even make solid evaluations of what changes/issues they are trying to solve by modding. Keep modding with out incremental subtle adjustment and you'll always be shooting at a moving target IMO.


Also, as others have said, Instructors are awesome resources. Your peers can also be awesome resources. You have a platform in the 86 that a lot of very experienced drivers are running. With your humble approach, I'm sure you'll have no trouble getting tips, advice, troubleshooting, etc from the local hotshoes with the same car as you. Try building a rapport with these guys and once you figure out the experts from the frauds then pick their brains for all they are worth. Chances are they may have fought many of the same battles with handling balance, braking, heat mgmt, etc. you are about to fight.

^Yes, what this guy said!

Don't worry about being faster (at the HPDE level, I know we all want to get faster) until you can go out and string together a session of laps within .5-.7s of each (traffic notwithstanding).

Once you can be consistent, the speed naturally follows. Because you'll be able to self-analyze and see what you are doing.

Thank you! Thank you! I knew the real track masters will show up eventually.

I will continue to work hard and develop myself, I have my next season planned already, with track days and respectable drivers in my community.

I appreciate all your help. I really do, I am glad so many pros here are willing to lend a helping hand.

This subforum is especially harsh to newcomers, as many questions have been asked over and over (and over and over and over and over and over).

Focus on driving, and the rest will come naturally (speed, setup knowledge, etc.)

Although it may be a bit pricey to fly me out, I'm always available for coaching. I typically book up 6-8 weeks in advance, but I guarantee you will have results.

No one called this as trolling?

With those coilovers and Eibach bars, you are not experiencing body roll, it is likely the sensation of you having to hold on because you don't have a seat / harness / etc... If you are not connected to the car it is difficult to judge what the car is doing and what you are doing, unless what you are doing is obvious.

Like everyone else said, practice, practice, practice. I am on the more liberal side of modding because I like tinkering with the car, but you have to have a great ability to sense the changes to get away with it. On a given setup, I can put down laps within .1 of each other with no traffic so any change is noticeable.

And like someone else said... that is nowhere near enough front camber.

Hey Mike thank you for your generous offer, I will definitely take it into SERIOUS consideration. I have a family and a child, so I had to give up many things/hobbies in my life, I bought, sold and tracked many cars then eventually sell them for more "family" suitable vehicles, but for some reason I just always come back to this scene, My wife and I have decided that this is my one and only hobby that I am allowed to keep (took lots and lots of persuading). So even if I may not be able to take up on your offer now, I will definitely redeem this offer in the future, maybe for a different car, I don't know, but its something I will keep at the back of my mind.

Thank you

Magiclow I like how calm you are in the midst of some of this craziness.

There's no doubt that tuning a car is super fun, but like some of the guys on here I definitely think that being fast is 80% driver skill, 15% car, and 5% performance upgrades.

That being said, if you're interested in improving your skills (as opposed to spending more money on cool parts) I'd highly recommend any of Ross Bentley's books, Going faster by Skip Barber, or any of Carroll Smith's books. They're between 15-30 dollars and full of awesome content.

If you don't want to spend any money, I've been giving away a free eBook that has 72 pages focused on driver improvement. See my signature.

And in any case you'll get better with more practice, keep at it!

1. Fix your camber. You need more negative in front than is the rear. No matter how good you drive you'll be fighting your front tires with your current setup, which will be frustrating.

2. Do more track days. Get a driving coach at a track day whenever you can. Listen to them.

3. Practice practice practice, tweak settings a bit, practice practice practice, repeat.

4. One of the best ways to learn how to drive fast and smooth is go karts. Find a good go kart track near you, rent a kart and try to get your lap times down there. If they have a leaderboard for rental karts all the better. This also removes car setup from the equation.

5. Remain humble. You have an excellent attitude. No matter how good you get it's important to retain that 'beginner's mind'. There'll always be somebody faster, always something to improve but you'll always have more fun without an ego chip on your shoulder.