CLUTCH LAG
 

Let me be clear on this. This is my first manual transmission vehicle, so it's possible this is normal.

Over the year that I have owned and used my 2013 BRZ, I have commented that sometimes my clutch "lags" and therefore my shift knob "grinds" against the "wall" of the gear I am trying to move on to. Before, it usually occurred when I was paying much more attention to the road than to what my feet and hands are actually doing.

Well last night I was trying out my new Mini 0806 dashcam around some really nice, pretty switchbacks in my area. I was also practicing my heel-toe, something that I've become surprisingly good at after only trying for the first time last week, so I was paying loads of attention to what my feet and hands were doing, specifically in what order they were performing tasks.
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Every once in a while, there is definitely some lag from when I press on the clutch pedal, to when I can actually change gears. And I had the clutch pressed in about half way, more than needed for a gear-change.

Is the clutch "hydraulic"? Would that explain it? Or is it part of a larger issue?

Edit: Would "bleeding out" the clutch possibly erase this issue that occurs every so often?

You are only pressing the clutch pedal halfway down???

If so then that's your problem right there.

If you grind with a fully depressed clutch, then you have an actual problem.

So you're saying I should press it all the way to the floor? I've had many people tell me that's bad for a clutch, especially when the clutch catches very high up, like in the BRZ.

Anyways, I only started pressing the clutch pedal down about half way about 3 weeks ago, when someone convinced me to stop pressing it down all the way. Since then, my shifts have become much smoother.

But the issue still stands that this "rare" incident still occurred over the past year when I did first press the clutch all the way down.

Maybe I'm creating false issues in my mind. I don't know...

Simple fix. Actually push the clutch all the way to the floor BEFORE you take it out of gear AND before you put it into another gear.

What you are doing is grinding gears because your clutch isnt fully disengaging...

No the clutch is meant to be pushed all the way to the floor.

The only time it is bad is if you are holding it down for an extended period of time. Like sitting at a stop light with the car in 1st gear waiting for the light to change. That will cause excess and unnecessary wear and tear on the throw out bearing and fork over time.

^^Agreed. If you are experiencing it rarely then chances are if you are driving more spiritedly or are doing things by muscle memory and aren't fully aware of your motions, then it is highly likely that you may be just barely missing the full disengagement point by purposefully only pushing the pedal just enough. Like it's already been said, fully press the clutch pedal when changing gears at any time.

whoever told you to not push your clutch all the way down when shifting... don't listen to them anymore. it's an extremely bad habit, same with resting your foot on the clutch pedal when not using it.

however, if you're looking for the quickest shifts and don't mind the wear and tear on your transmission, then that's when you MIGHT do it.

also I suggest you adjust your clutch pedal to a grab point you're comfortable at. it will make driving a lot easier. you can find a write up on the forums.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This.

Plenty of information on the forums regarding making the feel of the clutch much better without having to half clutch it....

ALWAYS push it in all the way. (that's what she said)
and call that someone an idiot and unfriend him.

Do I press the clutch in fully for aggressive shifts?no
Would I ever suggest someone not push it all the way? no, but with my current car I'm not worried about grinding gears or blowing a transmission.
Whoever told you to not press the clutch fully in a regular driving situation is an idiot.

Ok problem solved we can close this now :)

Don't close just in case someone elsehas an idiot friend who tells them the same thing.

If you haven't yet done so, this thread will tell you how to adjust your clutch pedal:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8040

If properly adjusted, the clutch pedal need not go all the way to the floor; it merely needs to go to the point where the clutch is completely disengaged. To be absolutely safe, you can press it to the floor, but (for example) it is not necessary in my car to do this.

Almost anyone that adjusts the clutch pedal is doing so to make the engagement point lower. Meaning that it is even more important to fully depress the clutch pedal to the floor.

Please don't encourage the OP or anyone for that matter to not fully press the clutch pedal down when changing gears. Especially with the OP being new to a standard gear box.

This.

Please, bro.

Let's not be ****holders here. It's perfectly acceptable to tell a newbie the reality of the situation.

Newbie or not.... Unless you're drag racing and trying to cut .05 seconds off your ET, there is no reason to not push the clutch pedal to the floor.

Plus our clutch pedals are so light that it takes little to no effort to push them to the floor.

It doesn't help the guy understand what's going on in there by omitting the info the dude was trying to explain.

It's obvious the OP does his homework and has a vested interest in knowing what's going on.

Therefore, your advice isn't very sound and that's specifically what I am underlining here. Let's let the dude fuck his clutch up a tiny bit faster than MBT, as long as he learns more from it, what's the big deal? He'll be more in tune with what is ACTUALLY going on. I've taught scores of people how to drive manual. I am one of the biggest advocates to this and I have a knack for teaching. I also don't accept pandering and political correctness- it's not the hardest concept of the world to figure out that the pedal only actuates a slave cylinder with a very tactile on/off biting point.

Clutches and clutch assembly items are wear items. Don't forget that. :)

I agree with everyone else, take it easy, you're not going to win anything by being able to shift 0.1 seconds sooner at the risk of grinding a gear or having to manhandle the gearbox to get there.

I disagree with everyone else on this: you're not going to blow up your clutch/tranny by not pushing the pedal all the way to the floor, I often don't because I'm comfortable with where it engages and confident that I'm not damaging anything, no grinding of gears or difficulty getting in and out.

Practice experiment and good luck.

um wait what? Since when is this reasonable advice? There is absolutely no reason to push the pedal further than it takes to completely disengage the clutch. If you cannot feel where that position truly is, then push the pedal to the floor. But seriously, only on some newer modern vehicles is it even remotely hard to tell where the clutch disengages.

Not sure if serious....


O.o

Please master using your left foot before you concern yourself with extra footwork for your right... especially on public roads.

Whoever said fully depressing a clutch pedal is bad is about as stupid as the AAMCO rep telling me that it hurts the transmission to rest your hand on the shift knob.

Omg noob or Civic driver is blowing up in my head with that harmful to press full.


Clutch is meant to be pressed all in. Only times you dont is when you in uphill angle and nervous. In this case you balance car with clutch 1/2 and gas to prevent rollback action.

Youre new so feeling clutch lag is normal. Its issue with not balancing gas and clutch. Try it at 2k rpms and you wont feel lag. also, if you have issue with 2013, get ecu reflashed in case of rpm dip. Turn ac off until you l2drive.. engage clutch to gear in and out. If not, its like rubbing sand paper on clutch to force gear out. This can cause uneven wear and ruin your transmission eventually. But hey, its your car. If you burn clutch itll just be a quick $500 tops fix if you do yourself, or pay the mechanic $2500 if you know nothing of fixing clutches.


Maybe it needs clutch adjustment? I learned smooth shifting by driving from 1-3rd gear barefoot using just my toes. Try it out in safe area.

That was put out by the Car Talk guys many years ago, maybe plausible but not worth getting panties in a bunch.

http://community.cartalk.com/discuss...on-the-shifter

http://community.cartalk.com/discuss...-on-shift-knob

Ah ya. Most cars you know exactly where the engagement point of the clutch is. Once the clutch is disengaged there is no reason to keep pressing it. It doesn't add safety or anything else. When the clutch is totally disengaged that is it, there is nothing else to do. That is literally what the clutch pedal is meant to do.

Now if you are a new driver, or are unsure, or just think it is a good idea, pushing the pedal to the floor will not harm the car, but it is never necessary and never has been.

True that actually... http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...t=87082&page=2

But overall, i guess i should put that more accurately in the context of owning the car for a short term and already getting grinding.

A fun story: I brought my dad's truck into an AAMCO for a trans rebuild at his request. After i picked up the truck and drove straight to his house (less than 10 miles), there was fluid leaking. Brought it back and the first question the guy asked me was if i rested my hand on the shifter. I wanted to punch him in the face...

It happens about once a month to me and I probably shift gears 5000 times a month in the BRZ. If it is my fault, and in truth it probably is, I'm alright with it. It's not like I'm constantly hearing grinding sounds and screwing up my shifting :burnrubber:

Edit: Now that I remember I made a similar thread awhile back and some people also seemed to think I was screwing up my shifts alot even though I wrote it rarely happened. But as always, tips and general sharing of knowledge are greatly appreciated.

:lol: Sorry.

OK. The clutch nanny has spoken.

What?? The reason you adjust the clutch pedal is to avoid the long throw before the bearing and friction plate start to disengage the transmission. That is further from the floor, not closer. With the factory adjustment, the throwout bearing doesn't even begin to engage until you have covered a lot of distance with no effect.


With the proper adjustment, the clutch disengages the tranny sooner, not later. Less pedal motion, not more.

Also, it possible the bloke who owned the car before me had made adjustments to the clutch, as it only takes about 2-3 inches of pushing the clutch pedal when granny shifting at 2-2.5k rpm on flat terrain without there being any sort of grinding. As it stands, I'm not sure I've operated an unmolested OEM BRZ clutch assembly.

Nope, sorry. Auto adjusting. No matter where the pedal height, as it is depressed, sequence of events is.

1. Reservoir valve closes.
2. Slave piston starts moving.

You can test this for yourself easily because all that is right on top. Just grab the end of the clutch fork and pull it forward. Watch the fluid level rise in the reservoir.

No adjustment required.