How to PROPERLY select and size TIRES for PERFORMANCE
 

Billy Johnson tells us how to PROPERLY select and size TIRES for PERFORMANCE on MotoIQ.com:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...RFORMANCE.aspx

18x12" wheels with 215/40R18 tires.

#stancenation

/thread

good stuff and so true. Tires are the only part of a car that touch the road, so a cheap bad tire can easily wreck everything, or a tire simply not meant for the conditions.

As an example, when I was living in florida I bought a set of tires for my yaris. They were phenomenal for dry handling and I loved them. But when I moved back to the boston area, the first winter I was able to get my car stuck in 3" of slush because my all season tires simply were never meant to be driven in snow. Or even better, I managed to almost do a 360 and smash into a few trees when driving off an exit ramp onto a road with a bump in between when I was only doing 20 mph. Really scary staring out the windshield right into a forest while penduleming back and forth almost a full 180° several times. I enjoyed it but I am sure the drivers around me were totally freaked out.

I think the bolded are the relevant parts of that claim, if we want to speak in absolutes. Which should almost never be done.

#245ona7
#stuffedonthere

:D

So all that, what he just wanted to say to buy good quality tires. Regardless of how narrow or wide they are.

So a high quality wide tire would out preform a narrow high quality tire?

I seen way too many stance nation guys have blow outs on the freeway/autox. Replacing extreme uneven wear on expensive sticky tires, just to achieve a look. But it's their car, their money. I'll just point and laugh, and use that money spent on tires for a track day or what ever.

How to PROPERLY select and size TIRES for PERFORMANCE
 

I really think our car should have some with a staggered setup like 215 front 235 rear. Instead of drift all you want 215 square.

Anyone running something similar? 😁

This should be in the general tire section. Once you start racing, tire and wheel selection is almost entirely dependant on the ruleset.

Perhaps you should balance that rear ;)

Nooo I love that you can easily rotate the tires on this platform.

I can't imagine how bad the understeer would be if that was the only change off the showroom floor on my car. I probably wouldn't have bothered modifying it and just sold it for something else...

There is absolutely no reason to run a staggered setup on this car beyond aethestics.

Seriously.

Well if you made it a drag car...

How to PROPERLY select and size TIRES for PERFORMANCE
 

Come on guys so much negativity. It's not gonna understeer in that setup. 😂 it will just be more track oriented.

:iono:

I just really didn't like how my car handled stock until I got camber plates, staggered setup would have made it noticeably worse, especially for the track.

sorry I don't have much of a sense of humor about it

:cheers:

*Shit 86 Owners Say
"Staggered wheels because S2000"

You're joking, right? It understeers with the stock tires at all 4 corners at the limit, going wider in the rear certainly isn't going to fix that.

This. Just because you can get a car to rotate doing something ham-fisted, doesn't mean it's set up for oversteer. I've done powerslides in LS400s before. Doesn't mean they need to understeer more.

:sigh:

Can't tell if serious, or troll.

How to PROPERLY select and size TIRES for PERFORMANCE
 

I'm. But I'm pretty sure this is related to thread topic. Stock wise 86 don't have too much power so it's good as is. 😛 But if you add some more power to it lets say 50-100 extra hp, Won't a slight staggered setup be better?

*Thread topic is how to select proper tire size for "performance"?*

No, most of what we experience is under steady state cornering, adding power does not magically change the handling balance of a car, the front end will still wash out at 'X' mph in 'Z' turn whether you've got 50 horsepower or 500 horsepower. While adding grip to the rear will allow for more power sooner it will only exacerbate the already existing understeer balance, again assuming the rest of the car is left as-is.

A staggered setup would be a bandaid that does not address the underlying problem, as alluded to above by @jawn oversteer on a stock 86 is caused by ham-fistedness, deliberate driver inputs, or road conditions, usually a combination of all three.

:burnrubber:

SOme one check my logic here. Formula 1 cars are the fastest race cars in the world. Formula 1 cars have staggered wheel set up. Therefore staggered wheels set up bc racecar.

But.. but...
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GqUkt83gpnI"]Max Verstappen drifts F1 car at Interlagos Free practice - YouTube[/ame]

When you have their power/weight ratio, you can too :)

I've read taht the tire/wheel size is all set by the regulations.

If the F1 designers had their way they would prefer larger fronts to optimize balance and run larger front brakes.

There goes the tire budget

http://www.wired.com/2014/07/f1-cars...fit-consumers/

save the rubber taste the rubber

Don't be too simplistic, it's also weight distribution as well.

Last time I checked there is a motor sitting back there with those wider tires. Rear and mid engine setup is a whole different ball game.

I know i was being cheeky

That one is such a classic.

So you're telling me I can't just go with 18x9.5 all around on my otherwise stock car and call it a day?

Haha that was perfect.

This is definitely gospel for track driving, but does it hold any water for autocross? If it did, it seems the ideal setup in CS would be the 205/45/17 RE71R since it has a 7" tread width. I haven't seen anyone claiming to be running that or the 215, just 225 and 245.

My car came off the showroom floor with 225's front and 255's rear on staggered wheels... That first track day was hoooorrrible... talk about understeer..

Ok that was over 2 years ago...

I now run them the other way around... 255 on the front, 225 on the rear.. :lol:


Actually come to think of it... both my cars came off showroom floor staggered... (only one came that way from the factory) they now are both square for trackdays at least.

Per the article:
The sloppiness is an easy hit to take for a tire that makes larger contact with the ground, the flex means that the tire rolls around and complies continuing to make contact with the ground, couple it with the flex generating additional heat so the tire 'hooks up' faster and that leads you to what is observed on the scene right now.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pQTFJg7R1KQ"]Critical Velocity Scuff - YAW - Tire deflection - YouTube[/ame]


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjx8WFXHNLA"]Team VCMC FR-S - AutoX Video 3: Rear Suspension, Subframe, Tire (HD) - YouTube[/ame]

Typically no. At Auto-X speeds you aren't as worried about rolling resistance and aero, however, the car is typically constantly in transition and can use the extra width.

On a road course, you spend alot of time going straight where the extra width is slowing you down between corners.

The Miata guys have even done testing showing Hoosiers (while having a higher apex speed) will actually lose a few mph at the end of the straight to something like an NT-01 (same width for both) which entered the straight slower.

And that's purely on compound.

Also, note that Hoosiers are WAY, WAY lighter than a NT01 of the same size, and weight is being reduced from the highest point of inertia.

When I switched to some lighter wheels, and 225 PSS, I lost a couple mph at the end of the back straight at road atlanta. But the rest of the course they were much much quicker than the stock setup of course.

I ran my car this weekend back to back with a 245 BFG R1 tire setup then later on 225 AD08, and really I can barely tell the difference.

Yes there is a slight edge to wider tires, but if you don't plan on driving your car 10/10 on the track you will be more than fine.

I have a full cage in my car and still I am not looking to drive it 10/10 unless I was racing, which I am not..yet ..

I would love to see real comparison on the same tire make/model and different size, especially 225 on 8" rims and 245 on 9" rims.

I bet they even out, faster turns on 245 and faster straight on 225. I think 225 may be more fun all around.

Road and Track did it with 215 and 235 Dunlop ZI SS, it's exactly as you predict lateral grip vs. acceleration and straightline speed.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...ransformation/

Around a track (I believe some iteration of streets of willow, can't tell) the 215's were faster than the 235's.