i just realized... 2016 turbo 4cyl CAMARO vs FRS/BRZ
 

yup. I'm going there.

Chevrolet is about to drop the 2016 and one of the powerplant options will be a turbo 2 liter four banger. yes, this has some hot rod camaro guys super pissed off. but chevy needs to keep the pony wars going and that ecoboost mustang is surprisingly amazing.

so where does that put the FRS in all this?
it all comes down to PRICE. i have been waiting to see how much a turbo camaro would cost. and on a whim i just googled it a minute ago.
just shy of $27,000.
thats not a whole lot more than an FRS is costing these days (for some reason?)

yes, i know, "dude a camaro is a fat ass beast of a car compared to the super-light FRS!"
im not all about drag racing, so i wont get into power to weight ratios. and i know weight is a huge factor in handling as well.
but i just cant stop thinking about how well a camaro could handle with half the cylinders missing... "could". i mean, all the missing weight might shift the balance so far to the rear, it has no grip up front and tun in suffers making understeer even worse than the 2010 version.
who knows. but i am REALLY curious to find out!
plus its got a turbo, adding power will be a piece of cake!
did i mention chevy put it on a crazy strict diet? rumor is 300 lbs lighter, on the V8 model! 4 cyl has got to be 400+ lighter than the current SS! hopefully... and yes i realize that still puts it about 1,000 lbs heavier than a twin.

its really coming down to the fact the lease on my accord is going to expire soon, and both the FRS and turbo camaro fall right into my sub-$30k budget. (if i could get closer to $30 i would also consider the focus RS coming soon, but... ford. bleh!)

i have been following the FRS since before it was a concept. back when we heard rumors on club4ag when moto was asking who would actually buy a "new" AE86 (most likely already feeling it out for tada san). this new 86 is really impressive, that it actually made it to production with most of the concept theories unscathed.

so i am very curious. i would love to see a shootout between the '16 camaro, and maybe if the timing is just right, if the planets are aligned... maybe the '17 FRS specs would be released and make it even more interesting?

ahhh the suspense is killing me!

what say you? (dont worry i am expecting biased opinions and my flame suit is still fully operational).

:popcorn:

750 lbs

i read that whole thing. dont.

the ecoboost stang looks better then the crapmaro

i just realized... 2016 turbo 4cyl CAMARO vs FRS/BRZ
 

Straight line muscle vs corner attck import >.>

^ Not even talking about power just the way suspension/car will be setup for.

Get ur idea right

For reals.


What's next? mclaren p1 gtr vs frs/brz?

Guys. 18 wheeler vs frs/brz.

Not sure I agree with the idea that Camaros can't turn, especially with the right handling package (i.e., 1LE or Z/28 configuration). They can definitely be made to turn and put up impressive lateral grip numbers in corners at the track.

They just won't feel like a lightweight RWD sports car due to the weight and size.

Whether that matters to you is entirely subjective. Personally I care less about laptimes than how a car feels at the track, but some people want to win their HPDE or have numbers to bench race with.

I would take an ecoboost over the camaro to be honest. I think ford quality is better than GM, who also want your car to be a licensed object.

Honestly though? It will probably be faster than an 86 in every way. Even the Miata is at this point. I would think the 86 would be a more fun daily though.

Camaro is just gonna gain a wider audience. For semi enthusiast to real enthusiast who know about driving and feel, it will still be crap. For those who are car noob, the turbo 4cyl will be a dream come true.

Biggest car rivals i'm hearing from soon to be new car owners are the:

4cyl Camaro Turbo
Base Mustang
Base Corolla
SI Civic

and....

Hybrid Camry.

IMO none for 'true' driving. Just DD.

So, where would it place the twins at?

Same place it is atm. Maybe if the IDX or other Chevy RWD mini-coupe popped out, then the twins would get more pressure for new model....or discontinuation.

Look at what happened to the Mini Cooper 2dr coupe hardtop. It's a disappearing breed.

Is anybody actually long-term happy with a Camaro? I can't imagine I would ever be.

i just realized... 2016 turbo 4cyl CAMARO vs FRS/BRZ
 

If you sent 25k on a camero , you not gonna get 1LE or Z/28 suspensions & nobody is gonna spent more then 10k to fix camero suspensions alone.

They will be upping the power of the turbo 4 first.

I don't know man. It's going to be tough to compare the Turbo Camaro, FRS, and Honda Accord V6. All around the same price but man that Accord is the fastest in the group.

In my honest opinion this is a very fair comparison. Sometimes people just want a sporty-looking coupe. I for one was actually considering a 2015 Challenger SXT with their new 8 speed automatic transmission.

I think this has already been confirmed, but the fifth generation base Camaro supposedly shaved 200 pounds of weight into the sixth generation, though that might apply to the V6 model but I doubt there would be too much difference with the turbocharged 4 cylinder base Camaro.

Not saying Mustang is anything close to being light, but the sixth generation base model did put on approximately 200 pounds in weight in order to have an independent rear suspension, so I think the new Camaro might be lighter than that if only by a small margin. What surprised me was that Chevrolet chose to have the turbocharged 4 cylinder model as the "weak" base model and the cheapest version rather than how Ford priced and specked theirs as the midrange option between the V6 model and V8 model.

In the end, you can get a used FR-S like I did for much less than a new vehicle such as the newest generation of the Camaro.

seems like someone had some strong coffee this morning

The 1LE and Z/28 packages were just examples of what can be done to the Camaro platform itself. Similar to the FR-S, you can upgrade the suspension for much cheaper than $10k.

No matter what you do to a massive car, it's still a massive car. Pigs can dance, but they're still pigs.

This chassis is transformational for GM. The ATS is a legitimate market contender, the V version clocked a 2:59 during lightning lap at VIR. The new Camaro will likely far exceed expectations and may be lighter than the Mustang in similar trim. Tuning potential for the turbo four?????? Chevy sells the current 1LE and Z28 suspension setups over the counter (check out the Grass Roots car) for a steal. However we have flown way past the original 30K.

Ford said they were going the shed weight on the new mustang......


They added weight

No they weren't; they never said that. That was actually a rather baseless rumour spread on the web.

Though, I don't even know how people online thought that would be possible with Ford newly adding an independent rear suspension to the Mustang and thus adding even more weight.

Here was the source for the baseless rumor.

http://www.edmunds.com/car-news/2015...cat=affiliates

Edmunds isn't in the habit of rumor mongering to my knowledge.

Wow. Nine "the source said" in one article. That read like one of those terrible BRZ STi rumour articles published during this year April. Haha.


Really though, this said it all.

Whenever I read these threads, I'm always blown away by how many people know so much about cars that they haven't driven.

Yes, it's like historians who study something without having even been alive at the time. I have consistently found that reviews in aggregate give wonderfully accurate information. The frs drives exactly as the bulk of reviews said it would.

Buy the Camaro or don't. Get an BRZ/FRS or don't. You don't need forum posts to support your decision do you? The FT86Club forum may curse you if you get a Comaro but you will make new "friends" at the Chevy forum.
The world will not implode due to your car purchasing decision.

But that's you taking opinions. I've seen enough bad reviews of the twins to know that you should take every review with a grain of salt.

But then I always forget that the only cars superior to the twins are Cayman's and 100k+ supercars, but then only ones that have manual trannys.

EDIT: And after being in a ride along in a friend's 2015 Mustang GT, that is a capable (to me) car. It's comfy, fast and can handle surprisingly well, considering everyone and their mother on the internet says if you try to turn a Mustang, it'll explode. I've stopped putting the twins on the pedestal, since I know that it isn't the "right" car for me. It's also funny how when any car gets brought up in comparison the argument always comes back to "But it's so heavy, wah wah wah wah". Yes, the twins provide a great driving experience, but is it REALLY that much better of an experience?

You can talk sales numbers all you want about the Twins outselling everything else in their "category" (Ie, 2 door sports car, so Twins, Miata, 350/370, Genesis, Mustang, Camaro, Challenger, whatever else I'm missing) but, the twins are also the cheapest, are they not? That was a pretty big selling point for me, and they got even cheaper, because I got an employee discount and a grad rebate. If they were all equal price, I probably would have gotten into something else.

I'm with @Bergen23 on this one. At the end of the day, of all the cars I was looking at in 2012 when I ended up with the FR-S, it was the price that was the final deciding factor. Had it been 10% more expensive, I would have ended up with a different car.


All vehicles have compromises somewhere. You just have to be able to live with them for the price you pay.

Price was indeed a factor when I bought mine as well but not for the same reason as many. I was cross shopping with cars up to the $80K range and could easily have afforded one. As I have said before with the mileage I drive I chew cars up pretty fast and only keep them 4 or 5 years at best. I didn't want to rack up mega miles on an expensive Porsche or such so went with the FRS as an inexpensive, throwaway alternative (1/2 this forum just had a stroke at that I am sure).
Two seaters were right out of my list as I still wanted the availability of rear seats and the "muscle cars" all seemed to be way bigger and thirsty for gas then I wanted. The hot hatches held some appeal but my last 3 cars were all in that class and I wanted something a bit different. This left we with a very limited choice in new, "inexpensive" coupes. Unlike many I had seen the release of the FRS but never gave it much thought at the time and pretty much forgotten it existed. When I stumbled across it again at the dealers the price point got me in the seat for a test drive and the rest is history. If it had been much more I would have been in a 370Z or Genesis coupe for the simple fact they were tried and true already.

Pretty much the same here, my "shopping list" ranged from about $20,000 to a little over $70,000 when I bought the car. Had the C7 been available in 2012 there is a very good chance it would have won out over the FR-S (I didn't care much for the C6).


In the end, the "throwaway" aspect of the pricing in my situation won out for me as well.

It's pretty simple. The negative reviews and the positive views said the exact same thing: it turns well, is tail happy if you want, feels good, and has a so-so engine. Some liked that and some didn't, but the vast majority agreed on these points.

Eh, well, I didn't say all these things. Just the stuff about light weight. I mean it, too. I've tracked a 4000lbs car with wide tires and lots of HP. It's not nearly as fun, but it's surely easy to pass people.

Agree with this. Before my FR-S, having tracked only with a heaver/taller mk6 GTI and STI hatch, it's amazing how much more fun the FR-S is, despite being massively down on power. I'm sold on lightweight and low CG for track days.

Having once owned a 1994 (4th gen) Z28, I can say for a fact that those cars, despite being heavy, could turn, and were quite fun to drive. At approx. 3400 lbs, they were a good bit lighter than the portly 5th gen cars. The steering feel was not bad, despite being somewhat artificially weighted. Riding on stock-sized tires, grip was surprisingly good, and braking performance was every bit as good as a Twin.

Obviously, my 2013 FR-S has better steering feel, and is much more responsive and composed than that car. But it should be, as it is lighter, doesn't have a 5.7 liter V8 sitting over the front axle, has tighter build quality, and is 20-year newer technology. But just because the current Camaros are grossly overweight (like almost all current "performance" cars), doesn't mean the model should be completely dismissed.

That depends. My afore-mentioned 1994 Z28 (which I owned up until 2000) was comfortable (with great seats, a roomy cockpit, and good ergonomics), had a decent ride, handled well, outperformed 99% of the cars on the road at that time, and even got pretty good fuel mileage.

What did it in for me was the shoddy reliability of the electrics and expensive repair bills related to them (though the drivetrain was extremely reliable), and the fact that, at that point in my life, I felt the need for a vehicle with more space.

As always, your mileage may vary.


.

Op why not go for the Camaro? You sound more ethusiastic about it and shouldn't you be asking this question to people who actually own Camaros? I find it kind of strange but maybe its just me. At the end of the day it comes down to preference and driving styles and which "you" believe you would be happier with in the long run.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900AZ using Tapatalk

Camaros became classic thousands of years ago. I enjoy being in on a new classic.

I know what you mean.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJMBTGFqopI"]é**æ–‡å*—D æ–°86 - YouTube[/ame]

Many years later down the line in the "Initial D" saga.

I've driven 4 Mustangs at this point, all from the last gen '12-'14 and yes, to me the 86 is that much better of an experience. So much so I've spent ~$30k on my car, and so have hundreds of thousands of others.

Edit: And I would do so again, if my car got totaled I'd go out and buy a used one with the insurance money and keep driving it, put it back to the same level of modification that I am currently at.

Differences are what makes life interesting.

I love momentum cars and will continue driving them for the rest of my life in all likelihood, low weight and high handling capabilities always beat horsepower and comfort in my book. I'm not here to convince you, only voice an opinion like you have.

:cheers:

Please don't...

You can stop thinking. How about nowhere remotely as close to a Z28 with twice the cylinders and added weight.

If you are buying a 4000lb muscle car for handling because it has half the cylinders of a V8, you should consider seeing a professional.

Yeah, but those reviews were from people who actually drove the car. What was your original point again? ;)

If you have to ask if adding more than a half ton of weight makes a difference to handling, boy this isn't the right car for you. Myself and others can feel a loss of 30lbs from taking out the spare tire or using a lighter battery. If you can't, get a Camaro.

how could you forget that! :bellyroll:

yeah, this forum is a big circle jerk 90% of the time.

I don't do HPDE, work schedule is too crazy. So minor differences don't make a lick of difference to me.

I also drive an auto, so I'm not an enthusiast and I'm also a shitty driver so I wouldn't know about or notice any of that.