2017 Fiat 124 - The best MX-5 (? or !)
 

Getting closer to the intro date of the Fiat 124. Essentially, it's a 2016 ND Miata chassis with Italian styling by FCA Alpha Romeo and power by Fiat or Alpha Romeo that carries over the same curb weight 2350 lbs. The car will be introduced at both the 2015 Frankfurt Auto Show in September 2015 and the LA International Auto Show in November 2015.

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/14/f...#slide-3548827

The power plant is likely a 1.4L i4 Turbo from the 500 Abarth. Stock specs are:
160 BHP @ 5500 RPM - 150 WHP 5500 RPM
170 Lb/ft @ 2500 RPM - 154 WTQ @ 3200 RPM

With a street tune @Shiv@Openflash with his OFT is able to make this motor hit:
180 WHP @ 5500 RPM
207 WTQ @ 4200 RPM

http://openflashtablet.com/Automotiv...OFT/index.html

http://openflashtablet.com/Automotiv...image_2021.jpg

There's also a chance it will get the 1.7L turbocharged i4 from the Alpha 4C. 240 BHP / 258 lb/ft TQ

Concept renders show improved more integrated styling over the garish ND MX-5. The most recent spy shots suggest the renders aren't too far off.

IMO this looks to be the car to beat on this platform.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-PFbaDUDWj4...64700006_n.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_ZFQY2Tgm4...er-2016jpg.jpg

http://immagini.alvolante.it/sites/d...-rendering.jpg

http://cdn.auto.it/wp-content/upload...he-Abarth-.jpg

http://www.clubalfa.it/wp-content/up...S57n-ECC2T.jpg


http://www.124spiderforum.com/attach..._800x0w-jpg.6/

http://steeringnews.com/wp-content/u...ng-750x400.jpg

http://www.124spiderforum.com/attach...ndering-jpg.9/

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims...hots-001-1.jpg

http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims...hots-008-1.jpg

The only Fiat worth buying!

I bet it will cost 1.5 X the MX-5 pricetag. Parts will be steep too, if it comes to North America. And of course the service network will be tiny. Italian styling doesn't come cheap. That said, I hope it comes hereand II'd like to see it on the road if it does. Probably cost like a pair of Cavalli blue jeans.

With Fiat's involvement with Chrysler and their expanding North American product line the service issues are slowing disappearing.
If the 124s do eventually come here in a couple of years I would think that the infrastructure to provide service will have grown to the point that it won't be that big a problem.

This is the one I would buy. Still disappointed it wasn't an Alfa but I really like this car.

The best thing I learned from this thread is that there's an OFT for the Abarth, that little screamer is looking better and better as a commuter car for me... Now I just need to find a commute.

The best chance Fiat has for success with a sports car is to line it up right next to or slightly above the Abarth at $22k-$25k with a slightly uptuned 1.4L Multiair (like +5hp over the Abarth, they have to do something to overcome the RWD losses otherwise their expensive sports car gets beat off the line by a hot hatch) but I'm not sure if they'd be able to undercut Mazda by that much unless they really cheap out on it somehow like a live rear axle, cheap steel body panels, made in Mexico.

My guess is it'll land in the $25k-$30k range, I doubt base price will exceed $30k given Fiat's current marketing strategy of "hip affordable". Sure with the right styling and quality materials and the big motor from the 4C they could justify a >$35k pricetag with everything expected of it but it'd look out of place next to a fleet of 500 cabriolets on the dealer lot, unless of course it had an Alfa badge. Oh wait, didn't Honda already do that?

Edit: I suppose they could put their standard 4 banger in their for like ~110 hp or their little turbo at 130 to keep the price down, after all the ND will sell just fine with the 1.5L elsewhere.

I think your assumptions are pretty spot on. $25-$30k with the 1.4 Multi-Air2 Turbo.

Btw... this is a genius little engine with it's hydro/solenoid valves. It feels punchy in the standard Abarth, I can't wait to get another OFT and tune it. My Abarth weighs about 2500 lbs, so imagine what 200+ lb/ft of torque feel like in it. Used, they're coming in around $17k and in a year $15k. 2012-2014 500 Abarths are going to be great value track toys. The 124 will be even lighter.

Even so, my guess is that it the 124 will equal a base Miata out of the box but won't feel as sharp as a ND Miata Club edition from the factory. Still the 124 should be cheaper than a Miata Club and have nearly full access to the Mazda parts bin, aftermarket, as well as much better Fiat engine options. Dollar for dollar, the 124 should end up being a more dynamic and better looking car than any MX-5 for less money.

http://media.caranddriver.com/images...s-original.jpg
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...stem-explained


Oh last thing. The base (Pop) Fiat 500x (the mini-crossover) also comes with the 1.4L i4T Multi-air and a 6MT. With an OFT, this has the potential to be a 500x Abarth on a budget . A kind of mini-Macan sleeper (like the regular 500 Turbo is an budget Abarth). @Shiv@Openflash there's yet another untapped market for you senior. Commission check address is in your PM box. Haha!

I hope you meant to say the only "new" Fiat... :D

http://i.imgur.com/BLzhf1n.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cMH7hj5.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/UJJXTFw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/08ryWq0.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/XBSNUtZ.jpg

I'm a fanboy. What else can I say? :D

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiat_Twin_Cam_engine
Not to mention the Fiat twin-cam engine
is the "most successful engine in the history
of the World Rally Championship".

I am GENUINELY excited about this new Fiat Spider.
I hope they manage to make it feel special. :)

[ame]http://youtu.be/Nfzlz1RqLbU[/ame]

[ame]http://youtu.be/fetkS66chfA[/ame]

[ame]http://youtu.be/W9oxpdXAqOI[/ame]

While the jury is still out on the ND —have yet to talk to people who have tracked it—, I could see myself trading my stockish, daily driven S2000 for this Fiat 124... specially if there's an Abarth version reliably making 200hp/tq... should be a riot given the power/weight ratio.

There's some concern about ND chassis flexing a tad too much but I wouldn't care as it wouldn't be my primary track car.

I wish the BRZ and FRS were as different as the ND and 124 are going to be. I'm glad that we will be getting two very different cars from one great platform.

I doubt the Fiat/Abarth version will be a faster or better car than the S2000.

Huh, that's the first I've heard of that, I'll be surprised if anyone has any hard data at this point, is there even an off the shelf coilover option from a respected manufacturer yet?

http://www2.mazda.com/en/publicity/r...5/150520a.html

wooo miata

No no no... this is how you FIAT! A 126 with a CBR900 swap and skinny tires! awwwww yeahhhh.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ztg-B6v6rQ[/ame]

Cool!

...and if we're opening the door for motor swaps...how about an X1-9 with a GSXR1000 powerplant..? :D

[ame]http://youtu.be/8HqLTQAHqGQ[/ame]

So in other words,

The best British roadster is Japanese, and the best Mazda is Italian.

http://www.joeydevilla.com/wordpress...mind-blown.gif

lol, I saw an Alfa 4C today if I wasn't mistaken, I thought my FR-S's engine/exhaust sounded horrible until I heard that thing go by...fartier than a buzzy Civic with rusted through exhaust. I would be more embarassed to have my car sound like that than a Nissan VQ drone.

I saw an Alfa 4C today if I wasn't mistaken. I thought my FR-S had a bad exhaust note until I heard that thing...I'd easily take an old Civic with rotted out exhaust over that. It is probably the fartiest exhaust I've ever heard.

Also, Multiair is great but it's Italian, and they admitted they can't use it over 7000rpm, so given that it's Italian I'll call it 6000, and expect these Fiat engines to start having tons of problems after a few more years. I feel like hydraulic variable lift is a no-brainer, I'd like to see a Japanese company take a stab at it. It seems to me that you could easily use the hydraulic lash adjustment with different valving and a sensor to detect the clearance to accomplish much of the benefit of Multiair. It'd be like Valvematic or VVEL or Valvetronic but with less adjustment range, but also less parts and power consumption. Or, we could just be using Honda 3 stage VTEC which is proven to be reliable.

MultiAir is only 3 years younger than Toyota's direct injection system and has been on the road for over 6 years now.

Taking a quick glance at one of their forums they certainly are showing more catastrophic failures on the issues page but flip to the second page and you see complaints not so different from here (leaky tailights anyone?)

http://www.fiat500usaforum.com/forum...s-and-Concerns

Oh they've been around for that long already...now that I think of it, I definitely remember when Multiair first came out haha. Time flies.

The thing that concerns me about Multiair is that it can potentially drop the valve against the seat very hard with a solenoid failure which the other variable lift systems aren't capable of doing. Not sure how much damage that could cause though.

Fiat 124 Abarth CONFIRMED
http://www.evo.co.uk/abarth/16370/fiat-124-spider-will-spawn-hotter-abarth-roadster from the Alpha 4C - 1.75L i4T - 237 HP / 258 TQ (could be de-tuned from the factory to as low as 200 HP, but easily re-tuned above that 237). Curb weight 2300 lbs.

Speculated look (render) - Don't love the look of the front end in these renders, but I do love a 2300 lb car with 237HP. Here's your new S2K, but meaner. Lots meaner. It'll probably priced similarly too at around $35-40k.

Also noted, the base (or "comfort") 124 will indeed get the 1.4L multi-air turbo which (with a tune) will be a performance bargain sleeper.

http://cdn2.evo.co.uk/sites/evo/file...?itok=Mpu9cIUu

http://cdn2.evo.co.uk/sites/evo/file...?itok=vxKF-klX

The new S2k minus the sexy NA 9k-redlining-yet-mechanically-reliable gift from the heavens.

Don't forget, the 4Cs engine also has forged internals. FCA is dropping the engine from a $60k car into a $25k one. There's going to be a lot of headroom. A factory turbocharged car with forged internals like the 124 is a tune away from serious beast mode. That is to say if 250+ TQ in a 2300 lb car isn't enough. 9k redline, fun but unnecessary. Also, the 4Cs engine meets today's emissions and MPG requirements. Something that Honda "gift from the heavens" never did.

It's been a decade since Honda has been anywhere near as focused or ballsy as FCA is right now (the new Alpha 6C, 124 Abarth, Alpha Romeo Guilia Quadrofolio, Maserati GranTurismo MC) . Time to let it go. The S2K was indeed a milestone, but it's gone. The 124 Abarth is an extremely exciting announcement for all car guys, for today.

...btw... I didn't mention what's happening to the 4C. The turbo 4 gets upgraded and is shared with the 124 Abarth. A new "C" model moves in that will be called the 6C. It's getting the Ferrari developed 3.2L V-6 that's also going into the Guilia (probably the 510 HP Twin turbo model, but I'd take the NA V-6 @ 300 hp just as well). Did I mention that FCA was killin' it?

http://www.autoedizione.com/alfa-rom...-developed-v6/

It sounds like two versions and two different engines to me. I would guess the Abarth version could be pushing high $30's to mid $40's. Will have an LSD, brembos, better wheels/tires. Most likely very limited production run and the cheaper version will be in the mid $20's to mid $30's depending on options. My guess at least.

Keeping my eye on this although without a true coupe bodystyle, I'm doubtful I'd ever buy one.

If the 124 Abarth is under $30k i'll be shocked. Hell if the regular 124 is under $30k i'll be really surprised.

I think the 124 "comfort" model with the 1.4L i4T will be about $30k on the nose and come with most of the Miata "Grand Touring" options. The most important option being the LSD. Everything else is an easy add.

The 124 Abarth should be between $35-$40k and have an options list similar to the 500 Abarth's (mostly comfort/convenience options), meaning a person could probably swing the 4C powered 124 for about $37K base and $42K loaded.

If this all ends up being close, what's crazy is that the 124 Abarth will have the same powerplant as the 4C but run about 200 lbs lighter but for $20K less!

It would be a an incredible value for performance for sure. The 4C is so expensive because of the carbon fiber tub and all the other expensive lightweight materials. Fiat is taking advantage of the work Mazda did and the car is relatively inexpensive.

I think I like some of the Fiat 124 renders better than the MX-5 as well.

Total speculation dude, might as well toss in an AWD turbo BRZ rumor for good measure.

From the article:

Since we're just making stuff up we could be seeing a much lower spec car than you're hoping for with the 1.4L MultiAir at 165+hp being the 'Abarth' model and the ~130hp engine from the 500 Turbo as the "comfort" version.


I also highly doubt the 2,300 lb claim, the ND is currently hovering around there with a very concentrated effort at weight loss (gram strategy) and a relatively non-complex NA 2L engine, is a pneumatic valvetrain turbo engine really going to slide in lighter? Is FCA going to spend a bunch of money on lightweight components for a Fiat when they seem to have trouble moving <$20k econo-boxes?

Probably less than a timing chain/belt failure?

Of course it is.

But it's not grabbing anything from thin air (unliike most of the misinformed AWD BRZ knucklehead posts we've seen). False equivalency dude. Fiat has strongly signaled the predictions I posted.

This could happen, in Europe (where 500 Abarth models are much lower powered). In the U.S. probably not. In North America we'll get the more powerful engines just as we do today.

What you're claiming won't happen, Fiat regularly does with the 500 Abarth. Performance variants that are lower in weight, with upgraded parts with more power. Two variants comes with a roll cage and one even with a rear seat delete. There have been at least 4 performance variants of the 500 Abarth and many cosmetic variants. The performance variants are substantially uprated over the Euro 500 Abarth:

• The 695 Biposto
• The 695 Competizione,
• The 595 50th Anniversary,
• and the 695 Tributo Maserati.

Don't hate, "Thread Killer" appreciate :)

Nothing has been more speculative than the pricing; Fiat isnt crazy but even you admitted a $40k 1.7l at 2300lbs is crazy. It seems like whatever they will build is going to be a fun ride.

Ah the Miata Mazda refuses to give us. My guess is that they'll just give us the Abarth 500 engine. Can't wait to see how it looks.

The Abarth in the US is 160 hp. I agree with strat, the 124 base will have 130 hp, the 124 Abarth will have 160 or a handful more, both using the 1.4 turbo engine.

lol totally thin air, none of those special editions are available in North America and all are outrageously expensive with small production figures, moreover the 500 Abarth is the heaviest of the 500 line available in North America at nearly 200 lbs heavier than a base 500 "pop".

I never said it was impossible, I just doubt it's likely. Hell it's possible that the Abarth 124 will be limited to the ~130 hp motor and the base 124 with 100 horses, it is after all a Fiat, a company that publicly wanted to chase 'largest automaker by volume' you don't do that with a $30k roadster, but a ~$20k roadster would probably move quite a few units... Not to mention stick with the heritage that the Fiat 124 was never a speed demon, although looking at wiki the ~126hp Abarth Rally was probably a real hoot at <2,000 lbs.

I've seen too many rumors the past three years paying attention to modern cars, a 200+ hp, 2,300 lb roadster from anybody not Lotus or Caterham is unheard of, much less one readily available in US dealerships with an actual network behind it at anything less than $50k.

I'll file it right next to all those turbo Miata rumors from last year, that even had a published video from Mazda to fuel the fire.
:bonk:
http://jalopnik.com/the-2016-mazda-m...ged-1599646738

Although I wouldn't mind seeing these "strong signals" that FCA is thinking about building such a car, but please don't link back to the same article we've been discussing.
:cheers:
:burnrubber:

Also, the Euro 500 Abarth SS reviewed on Top Gear about 6 years ago has the same power outputs and a lighter curb weight than the U.S. version along with slightly different suspension tuning. At least that was the story in 2012 when it was released here and I was shopping for one.

P.S. the thread killer is not malicious, rather lamenting as I seem to kill many a lively debate with my... well, I've been accused at not having any friends and being kicked out/not invited to parties by other posters.
:iono:

I won't bother refuting any of your speculation that you feel is stronger than mine. I've heard enough from Fiat to believe otherwise, and arguing that point is a fool's folly. Your post script on the other hand... now why would someone say such a mean thing? :)

"heard enough from fiat" :laughabove:

Never! S2k Love 4Ever :wub: