new exhaust setup with no tune?
 

Looking for some insight.

Just bought the Perrin resonated cat back (should be quiet) + HKS dual resonated front pipe (should be quiet) + ptuning header (should be f*ckin loud).

Ptuning recommends tuning it ASAP after installation.

My question for those out there who have similar mods - did you tune yours right away?

I know I'll get the best results with a tune and I will do one this winter. Until then, should I wait to install?

I would think the air fuel ratio sensors would see the extra air and adjust accordingly, no?

I don't drive the car often but when I do I drive it hard.

Any insight is appreciated!

So, you have the option to fully plan your exhaust from the ground up and CHOSE to have zero catalytic converters on a street car?

You won't get any help from me and I'd encourage others not to also.

Research what tuning options are out there. As far as I know, there's no damage done by not running a tune, but you'll have a CEL without a tune

If you don't get a spacer with the header, you'll probably get a CEL. Not sure if theres a CEL workaround for the resonated front pipe though...

If you don't mind driving around in limp mode, there shouldn't be any harm in not getting a tune. AFR and trims should be fine. If anything, get a used OFT and then sell it back later -- they don't really go down in value at most you'll lose out on shipping only and a little bit more maybe...

I do have the option of not running a cat. Who said it was a street car?

thanks for no help ;)

Your fueling and timing maps are going to be off. As you said you like driving hard, I highly recommend you get a tune before doing any romping.

If you pop, the fun stops.

Fair enough! Good advice.

Not sure if I'll be able to put the exhaust and headers aside until I can afford the tune. Its going to kill me!

You can install everything but the header without a tune

:search: maybe?

Way to be an asshole. I'm sure that was very helpful for the OP to read.

I'd agree with the OFT idea. You won't lose much on the purchase with the added benefit of enjoying your car before getting it custom dyno'd.

Put an O2 spacer or defouler in the REAR 02 sensor this should eliminate the P0420 car efficiency cel code due no cat in header .

some headers it shows up quickly some it takes a week or so, just be prepared to reset cel occasionally with andriod torque app or obd scanner reader or pull a battery terminal for 30 secs or so.. If you get cel other than P0420 investigate.

P0420 wont force ecu into limp mode but it will disable cruise control and may drop you to safe afr and timing maps reducing power.

it wont blow up without a tune it just wont generate optimium power due fueliing ignition and cam timing not being optimal for your setup.

stock tunes run rich

your more likely to get issues by changing intake and upsetting maf scaling

Thank you!!

Don't get exhaust parts without a tune. Especially a "full" exhaust without a tune as you'll waste hundreds chasing the unattainable without a tune. Don't worry, if you go the OpenFlashTablet route, you can always flash back to your totally stock tune and no dealer will know the difference. Pay attention to @steve99 's posts (many below) as well as @Shiv@Openflash 's posts if you decide to go the OFT route.

1. Get OpenFlashTablet first - Load Stg 1 tune - Enjoy ~170 WHP/ ~137WTQ
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71157

2. Get e85 - Load Stg 1 e85 tune - Enjoy ~200 WHP/ ~157WTQ
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67310
http://www.e85locator.net/State%20Pa...tml#Cincinnati

3. Get any catless/high-flow catted header UEL/EL don't really matter - Load Stg 2 e85 tune - Enjoy ~205 WHP/~162 WTQ
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55450

4. Get any catback - Enjoy improved exhaust note and maybe a couple more WHP.

Skip everything else as the other exhaust parts only add a handful of extra ponies, but will cost you hundreds more in your build. Put that money on tires, brakes, driver-mod, oil cooler, catch can, etc.

You're pumping CO and NOx into the air around your own children and neighbors and I AM THE ONE WHO'S NOT HELPING?

In the very first paragraph of your blog it says:

"So, not wanting to rise the dead or piss off the entire neighborhood I decided the rest of the exhaust should be resonated and as quiet as possible."

So, you start the car and presumably drive it in your street, therefore street car.

Even rally cars run catalytic converters and they find they do not restrict flow at all.

Honestly, people without running cat-less should take some responsibility like grown fucking adults.

They also tend to be the ones asking the same stupid fucking questions over and over instead of researching or simply searching first.

Once again, grow up.

Grow up? Yes, I drive my car on the street to the track. Sorry, I'll grow up.
I don't want an insanely loud car. Sorry, I'll grow up.

Again, you're not helping. Thanks to those who are and are not "trolling" like this gentleman.
Maybe I'll grow up on my 38th birthday? Nah.

If you're so worried about this go buy a Prius and switch forums.

Sorry for stooping to that gentlemans level.

Much of this info has been helpful so far, thank you all!

The car will trim itself while it's in closed loop. The problem is that it's not in closed loop under WOT conditions. We see the AFR plummet to 10:1 which is why we recommend a tune with the header. In addition, because it's equal length, the individual cylinder trims are zero'd out.

I think you need a Xanax.

Maybe I am naive or new to this and dont have the knowledge, but if I am getting a UEL (Revworks), does that require a tune. I dont mind getting a tune at all just wasnt sure if it was a necessity. I know you guys have mentioned it but other have said its not necessary. I dont drive the car hard and wont be going to the track just wanted the subie rumble.

you dont NEED a tune, however its best to get a tune. Just get yourself an OFT

Thanks Shady. I bought an ecutek cable and dongle, just need the license. I appreciate the fast reply. Will get it tuned after.

I believe I am the one that said to go this route.

I have the exhaust same exhaust setup you have, except add in a motiv over-pipe. Header and over-pipe were ceramic coated.

I put 2k miles on the car WITHOUT a tune. Also had 1 HPDE track day event.

NEVER have I see a CEL with these headers. Ptuning designed them not to throw a code, and they don't. End of story.

I would get a tune ASAP though...you'd be amazed on how the car feels afterwords.

And no cat is fine for a street car. Sorry it busts some tree-huggers nuts. I have 0 (ZERO) problems running catless with the setup you purchased. It sounds fantastic. As long as your state doesn't do sniffer tests you are fine. GA requires a "visual" inspection but I'd love to see a tech try and see under this car with all the trays

Sounds like Wayno needs to go live in commie-fornia with all the other environmentalists


cough up the $$$ and get a real tuning solution...ectutek is the only way to go

I have 0 cats

I also run e85

I'm all eco friendly and shit.


Plus, if you think Catalytic converters on cars are going to be what saves the planet, its a small dent in a bigger problem with deforestation and plants around the world without the same pollution constraints as here in america.

While I don't agree with his approach, I do agree with his sentiment. CO and NOx are very bad for LOCAL health. This isn't tree hugger "save the planet" crap, this is local.


Not that anyone cares, but remaining willfully ignorant of what you're doing is far worse, so give these a read:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide#Toxicity


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NOx#Environmental_effects

Thank you, best forum post ever.
Running catless, you'll kill people, not the planet. Especially the guy behind you on track.
The worst part of emission are HC. The one you smell, the one that give cancer. It's very effective at giving cancer BTW.

CO are no problem as long as you stay under the limit (you'll die right away over the limit). But they're no chance to kill someone as you're the only catless car around.

You'll make mostly zero NOx without cats on a gasoline engine because AFR is neutral or rich (to make work the cat you just deleted)

Yeah....look at all the professional race car drivers that are droping dead due to driving behind all the cars that don't have cats...

CONSPIRACY! THAT'S HOW DALE EARNHARDT REALLY DIED!


yawn. go hug a tree

Your other car must be a Prius...

hahaha at this guy :laughabove::lol:

anyone else notice the guys who post from australia are always angry.

anyway OP, you can install a header back exhaust and get away without a tune. (i did for 30k miles with 0 issues). I had planned to get my header installed by my tuner so i could do a before and after comparison on the same day, same fuel etc... as others have said you probably won't blow up, but you'll be missing out on the true potential to your mods.