BRZ HIDs vs FR-S HID Conversion
 

OK, so a few of us got into a pretty heated debate over the safety of converting halogen projectors to aftermarket HID bulbs. I decided to take a few photos tonight with my FR-S and dvsidboy's BRZ. Let the debate continue.

Now there is one thing that I want to point out before we get too carried away. The HID bulb in the BRZ has a dial-selectable height adjustment that the driver can change from inside the car. The photos where we are projecting onto the wall were set to the "0" setting while the photos that are projecting into the parking lot were on the "3" setting which aims the lights down so they don't project as far.

The lights in my FR-S are aimed according to standard procedure, which is detailed in many places. Here is one example:
http://www.ehow.com/how_4962528_aim-headlights.html

http://i47.tinypic.com/zilsgo.jpg

Quoted from the hijacked thread...

looks good!

did your black headlights reduce the glare?

OK, so now that everyone is caught up... here are my thoughts on the conversion vs the real deal. There are some artifacts above the cutoff on the FR-S, but they are much more obvious in the photos than they were to the naked eye. The BRZ also had a similar glow above the cutoff line, but with a less pronounced edge.

Standing about 200 feet in front of the two cars when they were parked side-by-side you couldn't tell the difference in light intensity.

Now, I am not claiming that my car would pass a DOT compliance test, but I would bet that if you didn't tell the officials that it was not a factory HID they would not know.

Well, the projector beam is not altered by the black-painted reflector, only the high beams. I didn't turn the high beams on for this test.

did you bend the squirrel finders down like the guy doing in this thread?
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...?t=6247&page=2

No, I didn't... but I am going to look into that tomorrow and report back.

They would, because the test would be instrumented. Don't be silly. You almost seem to be arguing in your other thread that because the poster can't show that your rig isn't DOT compliant, we should assume it is -- but using sneaky language like permitting that it ~may be~. That's also silly.

This thread is an interesting exercise in intarwebz pedantry, though, I have to say.

I wonder how many folks had even seen the DOT spec for headlamps before arguing about it on the internet. It's a phone book, like any other technical standard...UL, IEC, ITU, etc. I've thumbed through it a few times because I was curious about something here and there, but I'm certainly not a compliance expert. There are probably like 20 of those dudes in the world, and they work for the major auto manufacturers and whatever the DOT equivalent of a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab is (which might in fact just be a Nationally Recognized Testing Lab).

Anyway, this isn't a very well-designed experiment, other than perhaps to show that, top level, even a well-intentioned enthusiast is unlikely to make retrofit HID work well...because there are design differences from OE that you just can't do anything about.

Poking around for fun, I found an amusing response to a request for information from DOT. Well, amusing to anybody who ever has to deal with compliance.

I do like that OP seems to have a willingness to be wrong. That's an important part of experimentation. Good attitude.

Why was the leveling in the BRZ changed to #3 in different parts of the tests (ruined no variables)? Perhaps #0 is not properly adjusted within the calibration differences; tons of info on nasioc for doing that right.

Those two glare blobs above the cutoff on the garage doesnt look so pleasing.

Hate to tell ya man but the glare on those cutoff pictures looks pretty extreme. That is a lot of light above the cutoff.

As far as whether the headlights are DOT, they're not. Aside from the non functional highbeams which are an obvious deviation, HID conversion kits are illegal and in violation of federal law. This is why all retailers and retrofitters perpetually use the phrase "for offroad use only." Even if you "do it the right way" and utilize an oem projector with correct bulb and carefully aim it, it isn't DOT approved.

Headlight specifications are excruciatingly thorough and precise: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-201...sec571-108.pdf

That's honestly the worst output picture I have ever seen of a drop in kit in halogen projectors. The results are normally pretty bad with cheap HID kits but the amount of glare pictured here is alarming.

I know you think that to the naked eye it doesn't look as bad, but the truth is that the camera doesn't lie. And in all honesty, while your eyes can and will adjust for improper light output, they're far more sensitive than a camera.

Best bet is some real HID projectors. Bi-xenon too, if you don't want the high beams to be chrome.

It's pretty darn obvious it's not an OEM HID setup from the pics. Any DOT officer who would ever inspect headlights (assuming such a job even exists) would notice the difference in seconds.

I've done PnP retrofits before, they aren't anywhere near as good as OEM HIDs with a few exceptions (ie some OEM HIDs really really suck). They are cheaper though, that's for sure. Good retrofits (using OEM HID projectors or ones designed to the same standard, like FXR projectors) well very well and can be setup to be as good/better than OEM HIDs, but that's not what we are talking about here.

Interesting that your car appears to be a lower kelvin than the BRZ when it's actually higher.. did you use high quality bulbs or cheaper stuff? Or does the BRZ in question have replacement bulbs?

In your test I found it interesting that you turned the BRZs lights down to 3.. maybe 0 on that car is high because it looks about as low as my 4 or maybe even 5 setting but you should have left it at 0/1 to be fair. The change seems like it was done on purpose to show how much further your PnP kit put light out.. but then you mentioned it so I have no idea what your intention was.

As for the glare, that is hands down one of the *worst* examples of glare I've seen. I have had PnP kits in Integra projectors before and while they suck, they are 10 times better than the extreme glare your FR-S is showing.

There are three issues here: (1) total DOT compliance, (2) compliance with the DOT standards related to the light projected from the vehicle, (3) and driving safety, which includes driver visibility and consideration of oncoming traffic.

1. Total DOT Compliance: Obviously the addition of an aftermarket HID kit in itself is not DOT-compliant and illegal. This is a choice that the driver makes and hopefully he/she makes it with the next two issues in mind, although most do not. We are not arguing the chances that the conversion will be DOT-certified or that it will be legal. Let's let this drop because we already agree on these factors.

2. Compliance with DOT Standards: This COULD be an instrumented test, but since that is not reasonable to the average person, comparing light output to a DOT-compliant vehicle (such as the BRZ or S2000 or any other factory-HID-equipped vehicle) is our main test. If one could add an HID kit to their vehicle in such a manner that the light output was consistent with a factory HID vehicle then I am thinking that not many people would have an issue with it.

3. Driving Safety: Most people add HID kits because they are "cool" and there is little thought to the safety of oncoming drivers, and in some cases there is no thought to visibility at all! Even factory HID kits can be extremely bright and cause oncoming drivers to squint for a moment or two, so in this case I feel that it is more important to overcome that challenge for an aftermarket installation if possible.

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In my case, I will admit that I need a little more work to make the light output match that of the BRZ. The light emitted below the cutoff was consistent in both cars, with even spread, similar color and intensity. In my case, we are dealing mainly with the extraneous light that is projected above the cutoff.

Here is part of the problem with the photos. Now I am definitely no camera aficionado, but I do know that on the auto setting my digital camera will automatically adjust the settings to even out light throughout the image. Because of the extreme contrasts of the shot (very bright below, very dark above) the camera seems to have compensated in a way that exaggerates the brightness of the light that appears above the cutoff. In person, the light above the cutoff was nearly imperceptible and I was surprised to see how dramatic it looked once I got home and pulled it up on the computer. However, the main reason that I am posting all of this is so that I can improve my lights and document a path so that other FR-S owners who choose to do an HID conversion can easily modify their setup so that they are being as safe as possible.

The driver of the other car drive on the street with his lights at the lowest setting, which had a cutoff much lower than my lights, which were adjusted following standard headlight adjustment procedure. I should have taken photos with the lights set to the exact same height as mine in all photos, but the BRZ owner had limited time to help out and we had to rush the photos. I am not too concerned, though, since the main issue we are dealing with is cutoff. Aim is just as important, but since I know that mine are aimed correctly then I am OK with this. (A BRZ owner could drive around in the highest setting that could cause glare to other drivers in some circumstances anyway)

The interesting thing that we discovered is when we stood a couple hundred feet ahead of the cars. The Sooby had his lights aimed lower than mine in those photos, but because of his LED DRL lights in the housing, his car actually had a little more glare to the naked eye. My crappy digital camera doesn't really show that in the photos, unfortunately, but it is an interesting side note.

My next step is to modify the squirrel finder and then retest the light output. I will post more when I have done this.
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showt...?t=6247&page=2