Stock Motor is Toast (Spun Rod Bearing)
 

I've had my FRS since July of 2013 and after 25,000 miles the rods started knocking and we discovered a spun rod bearing. The Toyota dealership said "they've never seen anything like it" lol. Anyways, they agreed to replace my entire short block for free, updated my ECU, and put me in a 2015 Corolla S, which must have stood for "shit" because that thing has no business being called sporty. Not sure how I feel about my FRS now, but I've already broken in the new block with about 1,500 miles. If I wanted to blow up a boxer engine I would have gotten a WRX, but I digress.

Link to service receipt: http://i.imgur.com/R9kx0OW.jpg

So does the warranty on the motor now go for another 36k or does it still end when the car hits 36?

It ends at 36,000:sigh:

Not much experience w/ 'rods knocking'.. what would you say your symptoms were or what to look for? I push my car pretty hard occasionally with oft e85 tune. Just want to make sure I know what to look for.

WTF...
that's not right
replacement part should have another guaranteed warranty again.

Drive train goes to 60K. 32K is bumper to bumper.

Let me just say if you had problems, you'd hear it.


There's nothing to "look for," it just starts happening when the bearing tolerances become larger due to oil starvation mostly. All that extra space between the con rod and crank will cause a metal clanking sound and will get louder and faster with more engine rpm.


That, or just a fluke at the factory.

If it were my car I'd be looking to trade it.

What caused the failure ?

Bottom ends don't fail easily. They're pretty much bullet proof at stock levels unless they are starved for oil.

That's what I'm trtrying to figure out also....

They took my motor apart and crank case turned blue do to lack of lubrication and oil starvation.. my car had good oil level also.. no check engine lights btw..
32999.. http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...psuuaukjui.jpg

Did any of you have a Cam issue/CEL before the engine failure?

Nope.. no CEL nothing.. they didn't mention anything about the cams.. forgot to look into it..

I was in fourth gear doing about 50 MPH when I downshifted, accelerated, and heard a strange rotating rattling noise coming from the engine bay. I turned down my radio and the rattling turned into loud violent knocking. The car died in motion and I lost power to everything. Luckily it was on an empty Texas highway.

This man speaks the truth.

It's a lease so I'm not worried about it. I do worry that it will happen again though.

Car was somehow starved for oil and spun a rod bearing. The techs blamed it on my old 2012 factory tune. Apparently there was an ECU update that I never received.

True.

None at all. I've only had ignition coil failure in two cylinders prior to this.

My car had proper oil levels as well. MY CEL came on about one minute before complete failure.

I never got to see my engine in person either:mad0260:

I say the Techs are full of shit.
The Tune can in no way affect the oil pressure in the system (that I can think of).

The only exception would be a bug in the VVT AND a flaw in the system that would allow oil pressure to drop if the VVT was commanded to change position continuously (failed cam position sensor?)
Maybe (I doubt it) the VVT system can reduce pressure in the rest of the system if not commanded properly?

Now I'd like to see a detailed diagram of ll of the oil passages in this engine.

I'm with you on this one. The tune shouldn't have anything to do with how much oil the crank bearings get. Something else had to have been at fault, methinks factory error.

so on mine, rod 4 bearing spun due to lack of lubrication and oil starvation, but i have no oil leaks/no cel/good oil with 1179 miles on a changed oil..bone stock

this is what im trying to figure out...

What did your knocking sound like? My engine is knocking as well.

Stock Motor is Toast (Spun Rod Bearing)
 

So to the guys who are experiencing or have experienced this noise, can you tell me if this is the same sound in my videos? For me it's been happening for about 8 months.

https://copy.com/qBQ0lSeoas9OFGSu
https://copy.com/JqSNPV1iHHENEg9Y

That's exactly what mine began to sound like in the beginning before it got even worse. Although mine rattled, knocked, and blew all at the same time within five miles of highway driving. Not sure how it's lasted 8 months.:iono:

you have knock.. on what engine/tune setup?

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFoOgdMqUoQ"]subaru rod knock - YouTube[/ame]

Exactly like this guy's STI. You'll hear it at the 24 second mark.

I will admit I am not the most mechanically inclined person, but I had a feeling the service writer was bullshitting me. I forgot to mention that when they replaced my engine, an o-ring was pinched somewhere and caused it to leak oil. I got home and parked the car and the next day I woke up to this: http://imgur.com/Zgkp8HL

It lost about a quart total from the drive home.

I'd like to see that too. I saw video of two guys from Australia discussing our engines and they said that if the Cams go out of sync, this can lead to oil starvation and ultimately failure of the engine. I am trying to understand how a Cam malfunction can reduced oil flow.


Anyone know?

For anyone who's curious about how AVCS works, here's an article from Subaru. I'm under the impression that the oil system would be properly sized to handle continuous camshaft timing changes without incessantly reducing oil pressure. But in any case, a properly functioning AVCS system only should use oil when adjusting timing from what I understand.

http://drive2.subaru.com/Win05/AVCS/illustration.gif

On another note, that crankshaft doesn't look messed up on first glance... The crank case doesn't blue since it's aluminum unless you meant the crankshaft, but the bluing you see on the counterweights is from the heat treating process. Cranks generally look like that. Scoring on the bearing journals is the sure sign of a spun bearing but the picture doesn't immediately show it. Hmm.

Now that you get me thinking, I wonder if either a failed cam position sensor, or a bug in the software could cause continuous commanding of cam position?
The most basic code would say:
If cam_position_sensor_phase < commanded_phase then command_more_phase

If the cam position sensor stopped responding (or the cam got stuck), then it would just open that valve to command more phase and leave it open because the cam never reaches the target position.

I dont know if they have fault protection that would cover that case, but it is interesting.

On a related note, I know of two rockets that were lost because the system ended up using more hydraulic than expected.
On one of them one of the control system parameters was off by a bit (Delta-III).
The most recent was SpaceX's attempt to land on that barge.

Yes, they were saying something like that..... the cam would stay advanced when it shouldn't, causing oil starvation in the rest of the engine.

The ECU can detect if the AVCS isn't functioning properly. There are a series of DTCs related to slow AVCS response, excessive advance, no response, etc.

I don't know the specifics of the flow volume or pressure drop when the solenoids are commanded to adjust the cams, but it's plausible that continuous actuation could starve a rod journal given the oil channel layout on the FA motors. Unlike the EJ motors where the crank was fed and then the heads, they are fed simultaneously on the FA.

so i have 2013 and there was a ECU update for what? i was never informed of this... what does it fix and do?

almost a month now and my car still at the dealer not being fixed under warranty.. same reason spun bearing rod 4 bone stock

If you have a FRS, then the dealer will update you to the latest ROM.

If you have a 2013 BRZ, the dealer will NOT give you the latest update.
They stop at a ROM that does not address the transient timing problem that blows DI seals.

I can look up the ROM IDs when I get home if you want specifics.

If you want to protect a 2013 from the blown DI seal issue, then you have to update the ROM yourself (or have a problem such that the dealer must updgrade the ECU, then you get the newer ROM)
I have no idea if there is a fix for "AVCS issues related to oil pressure".

That's why I do all my oil changes at the dealership, and check my levels weekly.

I know it will happen, I just don't know when.

My warranty claims were also easy, as my car is bone stock.

If you had two coil failures, that's likely related to the factory tuning, if you were having detonation issues or knock related to it them it could have helped aid in the bearing issue.

Just chiming in here that I had the exact same issue with my FR-S at 20,000~ish miles that ended up being a bearing on cylinder 4 (rod knock). Exact same sound as video and descriptions, ended up getting a replacement engine pull under warranty from a wrecked BRZ (102 miles).

I'm over 16,000 miles on the new engine with no issues, I did get the latest ECU updates after the engine swap as well.

Original engine gave no CEL's or warning, just started knocking.

yikes

Stock Motor is Toast (Spun Rod Bearing)
 

Is there any general consensus about what a tune does as far as engine warranty goes.

I'm sure if you had some turbo and a shit tune they would not honor the warranty. But I'm stock and have an OFT stage 1 tune, which if anything, makes the engine safer than some of the versions of the stock tune .

Wait, I thought coil failures were heat related, any more info on this?

So to my knowledge only the 13's having engine problems?

If you go in for an engine related failure and they look into your tune, chances are you'll have your claim denied. The general consensus is to flash back to stock before a claim. I feel good about having an OFT stg 1 tune with virtually 0 knock on 91 vs the stock tune.

It's heat related and was much more common on motors running the stock tune before the transient ignition table fix.

Hotter cylinder temps from detonation or knock events usually helped to kill coils. You might want to tag some track guys who were running stock cars for a while who had coil pack issues.

I don't see any good reason for coils to be failing, let alone two on a bone stock car. We don't and have not see too much of that on FI cars who make much more heat albeit proper tuning and ignition tables fixed.