Originally Posted by tahdizzle (Post 2089551)

You take that back! Frozen was an awesome movie!

Originally Posted by strat61caster (Post 2089591)

You're right, Nissan's '03 and '04 sales outpaced Toyobaru's '13 & '14
http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2011/01...s-figures.html

36k & 30k vs. 26k & 21k

And it's likely that the '05 & '06 sales will outpace '15 & '16 but I would expect similar dropoffs. I'm not surprised at all by the Toyobaru's sales trends, the RX-8, S2000, and NC Miata all follow similar trends to the 350Z, and now add the Toyobaru to the dataset.

It's also arguable that Nissan has had any lightweight RWD platforms since the 240sx, at it's lightest the 350z clocks in ~3,200 lbs...

Edit: Also worth noting Nissan had more resources to dump into chassis, suspension, styling and interior as the powertrain is sourced from their trucks and larger sedans/utility vehicles which seemed to fit the American market at the time (muscle car strategy, big beefy utilitarian powertrain stuffed into a small body).

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2089650)

Do you wanna build a snowmaaaan
Or ride our bikes around the haaaaalls
I think some company is overdue
I've started talking to
the pictures on the waaaaalls

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88 (Post 2089547)

Reading comments on threads like this really speaks to the age, or perhaps the education, of many Toyobaru owners. There seems to be an incredibly poor understanding of how things work within major corporations, who is privy to what sort of information, and how new products are developed/introduced.

There's far too much unfounded speculation and incredibly generalized assumptions based off of societal misconceptions/stuff you might learn in movies.

Originally Posted by tahdizzle (Post 2089657)

/sarcasm off

That was a terrible movie!

Originally Posted by Tromatic (Post 2089699)

Jay Leno visited the Nissan HQ/whatever in SoCal and got a look at some drawings of the proposed "new" 240/60/whatever. Looked like hammered shit, and not at all based on the looks of the classic 240. How stupid do you have to be to have a 240 in the design shop and not go with that?

Originally Posted by Tcoat (Post 2089675)

Grand kids!
I have seen or at least heard that movie somewhere around 2,836 times!
I hear and see it in my sleep!
Just when I had almost forgotten it you had to bring it all flowing back!
Can't take it anymore...where did I put my rope and chair??????

Originally Posted by Shark_Bait88 (Post 2089547)

There's far too much unfounded speculation and incredibly generalized assumptions based off of societal misconceptions/stuff you might learn in movies.

Originally Posted by Braces (Post 2089810)

Well ... Let's look at other successful car manufacturers and a few of their model progressions.

Cayman ... Cayman S ... Cayman R
911 ... 911S ... 911C4 ...911C4S ...911GT3 ...911Turbo ... 911Turbo S
Corvette ... Corvette GS ... Z06 ... ZR1
Audi A () ...Audi S () ... Audi RS () .... R8 ... R8plus
Ford Mustang (6 cyl) ....Mustang 5.0 .... Shelby GT350 ... Shelby Supercharged
Mercedes ....Mercedes AMG
BMW ... BMW M
Ferrari 360 .... 360CS
Ferrari F430 ... F430 Scud

There are plenty of examples. Nothing wrong with starting out with a base model and then offering future upgraded models. It keeps the existing model line fresh and prolongs its life.

Originally Posted by Braces (Post 2089810)

Well ... Let's look at other successful car manufacturers and a few of their model progressions.

Cayman ... Cayman S ... Cayman R
911 ... 911S ... 911C4 ...911C4S ...911GT3 ...911Turbo ... 911Turbo S
Corvette ... Corvette GS ... Z06 ... ZR1
Audi A () ...Audi S () ... Audi RS () .... R8 ... R8plus
Ford Mustang (6 cyl) ....Mustang 5.0 .... Shelby GT350 ... Shelby Supercharged
Mercedes ....Mercedes AMG
BMW ... BMW M
Ferrari 360 .... 360CS
Ferrari F430 ... F430 Scud

There are plenty of examples. Nothing wrong with starting out with a base model and then offering future upgraded models. It keeps the existing model line fresh and prolongs its life.

Originally Posted by DAEMANO (Post 2089732)

Toyota beat Nissan to the punch.

There's not only a lot of Toyo 2000GT in the '86, but a few shakes of Datsun 240z as well. Now Nissan has to go in another direction while still trying to work in whatever current design language they can. Yes the same design language that shat the Ju(n)ke from Nissan's wretched womb.

Originally Posted by totopo (Post 2090027)

I don't see how people expect to see a fr-s/brz with more hp. What transmission are they going to use? what drivetrain are they going to use? how much weight is it going to add? are you going to use the beefier parts in the smaller engine brz (like all the other cars with multiple engine offerings) and add to the weight?

Would people buy either a 200hp 3000lb twin or a 270hp 3100lb twin that costs 35k?

Light weight, high hp, cost. Pick at most 2 out of 3, usually more like 1.5. MR cars don't sell well so scratch that off the list. Name me a modern car (that passes modern safety standards) that you classify as light weight and good enough hp. The s2k is closest historically with laxer emission standards. And it only had 10 more ft. lbs of torque than the brz, so don't even think about small displacement turbos, they put out huge torque for their hp. Beefier torque needs beefier everything. If it were so easy to make a <3000lb >300hp <30k car you think people wouldn't make it? Go look at the actual weights of modern cars. Safety standards hurts.

"light weight" is a luxury of MR cars or kit cars or cars of the past with shitty tires, no safety standards, and no torque. You can't have everything. it's like a line at the budget trade off. And if you hear what the actual bean counters and engineers at toyota are saying, they think they chose the wrong point in the line. It currently goes like, miata -> twins -> nissan z, bmw's -> mustang/camaro. And toyota thinks the market segment that needs catering to is under the miata. same with honda with the s660. I really wonder what the heck nissan is going to do with the z car. I can't see a good niche for it.

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive (Post 2090056)

1. Offer a stripper model of the FRS like they do in Japan like the GT86 RC. This would offer a car that is 150lbs lighter, cheaper, and more "mod ready" than the current base model offered. I don't think it would sell in big numbers, but it would be a really nice alternative for some people. http://www.supercarexport.eu/cars/to...-gt86-rc-spec/