I am also curious as to the problem with the t56 and now the t6060.

As for if it's the best that is the choice of the owner. There are also Ford 5.0 swap kits straight from Ford.

The LS series is user friendly, easy to work with, lighter than most alternatives that can get in its power range and can be found as early as walking into a junk yard if you are in a tight spot.

As for the similar rotary vs LS swap the differences came to light just 10k after that if that long when the rotary went down hill and the LS kept going. Then you had the fun of trying to rebuild the rotary when even Mazda stopped making the housings for them and the coating from the factory to make them last longer is not easy for others to replicate so most rebuilds last half as long. None of that sounds ideal when you think about any swap long term. This is rapidly important if you plan to really use that vehicle for constant hard tasks.

Now some situations will call for a different approach, a 4 cyl or v6 might be the better choice for class options, space constants or any other number of reasons.

However there is a clear reason the LS series has been so popular for swaps and that's because in almost every swap it's light, reliable, powerful and it adds value. Many swaps can't say all that together.

Now if I made any small mistakes it's most likely auto correct as I'm on my phone so I apologize.

Size.

And 6 speed Supra trans is a v160. In which I'm not using, I have a 5 speed good for 850+ ft lbs at a bargin

There is a billet aluminum block for the 2J that weights only a 85lbs compared to the oem 225lbs iron block.

http://www.mazworx.com/store/p/208-M...num-Block.aspx

http://www.mazworx.com/resize/Shared...0&bh=550&h=550
http://www.mazworx.com/resize/Shared...0&bh=550&h=550
http://www.mazworx.com/resize/Shared...0&bh=550&h=550
http://www.mazworx.com/resize/Shared...0&bh=550&h=550
[IMG]http://www.mazworx.com/resize/Shared/Images/Product/2JZ-Billet-Aluminum-Prepped-Block/IMG-0063-2.jpg?
lr=t&bw=550&w=550&bh=550&h=550[/IMG]
http://www.mazworx.com/resize/Shared...0&bh=550&h=550

Agreed...! I don't want the "funny car" experience with the FRS.
I enjoy keeping my foot in it, and the relatively long run thru the rpm range.. The chassis and feedback makes it feel faster than it really is..
I also don't think the unibody on this car can handle the large amounts of tq without some detrimental affects over time..
I like this car as it is.. I'm one of the few who think it's quick enough right out of the box.. But I also enjoyed the muscle car years and Vettes for the past 15 years.. So I can understand why some want more.. But it really is a fun ride as it is

this isnt a debate about stock power vs an ls swap. its about forced induction vs displacement.

There are tons of aftermarket for both of them. Like my stage 2 Tick T56 that will take pretty much anything I through unless I break 1000hp which as much as I would like to say I will I'm not going to. Or stroker kits for less than the cost of an LS2. The aftermarket's are great compared to others mainly because these motors have proven themselves for years.

I bought that trans with the tick clutch master I will be using to replace the stock FRS clutch master. I also got a spec stage 3+, light weight flywheel, brand new gm slave with speed bleeder basically the only thing I didn't get was the drive shaft but u get that to. It may not be as great a deal as yours but I was happy with it.

Because of class restrictions. Some do win in spite of that.



That's a 100% pure drag block as it lacks coolant jackets.

Tremec themselves say that this trans wasn't designed to shift over 7000rpm. I know from experience that this is in fact the case, over our stock redline it will not go into gear no matter what fluid or clutch you use. The only option is to faceplate the trans which is costly, labour intensive and makes it less than street friendly.

Ouch! $9K for the block alone.. That's going to be one pricey engine when all is done.
It's pretty though.. And a big weight savings..

Then FI is a better option IMO.. Less stress on the chassis and easier on drivetrain components.. Too bad they don't have a engine option with a lower CR for easier and safer boostng..

Strange I have taken my Vette my wife her SS and my other LS cars over 7k no problem.

Been there done that watched others here in AZ do it and many met failure even a built one so no thanks.

How much over 7000? I couldn't shift mine at anything over 7500.

I think the max was 7300 or just slightly over I didn't do it very often only autocrossing

What class restrictions? I'm talking about unlimited pro class time attack circuit racing, where there are very, very few restrictions and it's 100% all about who can achieve the fastest lap.

That's also expensive as fuck! lol

There are also billet SR20DET blocks too. The MCA Suspension Hammerhead S13 uses one (with a VET head) and took 3rd in World Time Attack Challenge yesterday.

Yes, because the engine swap puts them in the class that full on super cars or pure race cars are in.


You answered your own question...

Link me to exactly what you're talking about with proof. The biggest time attack event in the world just happened over the last two days in Australia, and the highest class is Pro class. Club Sprint class allows engine swaps, but not cross-manufacturer engine swaps. So, that explains why you don't see LSx swaps there, but the Pro class does not have that same rule. These guys are spending insane amounts of money on one goal, to be the fastest around these tracks, and they are not using LSx engines. They are using light, built small displacement engines with huge turbos and setting world records.

I actually can't think of any LSx swapped cars setting records in the U.S. either. There are fast turbo/supercharged s2000s, fast turbo NSXs, etc. with records..... and there are some fast Corvettes holding records too (they tend to do well on less tight tracks though, due to size & weight), but I can't think of any light FR chassis cars with LSx stuffed into them doing well outside of drifting/drag racing. The NSX is an exception to the light, small displacement trend, because it has amazing handling and stability with the mid-engine layout.

It doesn't seem to be about restrictions. It seems to be about weight, balance, and traction.

If anybody has examples of where I am wrong, I would like to hear them though! I have considered putting an LS1 or LS3 in my 240sx several times, but decided against it since I am more into grip driving than drifting or drag.

EDIT: The top 5, by the way, were:

An Evo, an S15, an S13, an S2000, and an RX7......... all with turbo'd small displacement engines. (These cars finished way ahead of all of the cars in the Nissan GTR class, btw.)

BTW, I am in no way saying an LSx or 2JZ swap is not a great idea for performance or even daily enjoyment. I'm just saying it depends on what you want to do with the car and your goals. It's not necessarily the BEST option for overall performance like some people like to state.

It's the cheapest option to get a lot of torque that's going to break traction (good for drifting) or propel you in a straight line very quickly (drag racing).

In things like Corvettes, it's different, because the platform, balance, suspension, etc. is all built around a specific design and the handling is great.

I just wish the Corvette was smaller and more affordable. A baby Corvette would be an incredible car.

Cross brand engine swap instantly puts a car into Prepared or Modified class under SCCA rules which requires a roll bar that most people aren't going to install on a street car. Prepared class is filled with gutted and race-spec cars that are usually not street legal, and Modified class are usually even more extreme.


At these levels weight savings alone is going to essentially remove a large V8 from the equation (as you've said). If you can make the same power with a lighter car, it's going to be done.

Exactly. lol. Although I wasn't talking about autocross.

That's the whole point though. When going all out and really focusing on OVERALL PERFORMANCE, v8 swaps aren't the answer.

Of course, that's not cheap....... but this is not a cheap hobby for enthusiasts. :P

While I like the merits of both points being made at the end of the day it's what we want and enjoy. I like scca events but I don't really compete it's for me to improve. Street, Drag and Cruise are my areas. When I look at a car I want all the options still working, no roll bar and suspension mods with power and reliability. I hate roll bars etc I like a car to look clean and close to original not what I think is riced out.

Everyone else will be different but I will never be out to set records there is Alway's someone with more money or options. I just want to enjoy what I like and not be concerned it's going to break.

Hell, one could argue under SCCA rules the 2JZ swap would be legal :bellyroll:

How the fuck are roll bars rice? It's functional and serves a purpose. It's called SAFETY.

And if we're just talking about fun cars on the street, none of this is even necessary. If anything, worrying about power on the street is childish and immature. Take it to a real track and show some driving skill. Street racing on the highway is for kids. Anybody can spend more money and mash the gas pedal on the highway. Not anybody can really drive a high power car with skill....

I love 2JZs, but I bet that shit understeers like a MFer! lol so much weight from those bigass inline 6s.

Would be extremely fun in a street car or drift car though.

Drag racing just does nothing for me. :iono:

Your now attacking me because you did not understand what I said, nice show of maturity and superiority.

I never said roll bars were rice you misinterpreted that.

Just as I never said street racing was the best thing ever in fact I said I enjoy road course events, street and drag.

So how about you focus on comprehension and stop attempting to fabricate or spin scenarios.

I have made it clear everyone is different, you somehow took that as what I implied only what I like matters to everyone. Ignorant.

If you would like to put your money where your mouth is how about 500 road course and drags as my Vette can handle both? Or would that be unfair that I asked you to stand up to the ignorance you decided to push?

"I hate roll bars etc I like a car to look clean and close to original not what I think is riced out."

That says I hate to bars, I like a car to look clean/ close to original not riced.

That does not imply they are rice but other things such as stance, body kits, and other items are rice to me.

What is clear is I hate roll bars I just don't like them which also hints why I'm not worried about going beyond certain points.
My Vette is a vert, putting in a roll bar for what I do with it is a look I hate. I don't need it for my purposes and I refuse to get one. For drags they have made it clear if I run 11's twice in a row I'm out. So I normally stay low 12's over 120's and leave it at that.
I just hate the look that much and I don't put myself in situations where I would need it.

However if you again misinterpreted that it's your fault for going off on a rant with all the other assumptions you attempted to imply.

Well I hate the whole stance/hellaflush scene too. So, we have something in common there. haha. I don't hate functional aero though (key word being functional), but it doesn't serve much of a purpose on a street car, obviously.

The way you worded that just sounded like you were saying roll bars or cages are rice, which irked me a bit.

But yeah, long story short, like ALL things relating to car mods, it really depends on what you want to do with the car.

I suppose it also depends on how capable the stock engine is, which we may not really know yet when it comes to the FRS/BRZ/GT86. With the SR20DETs, they ended up making a major resurgence in popularity much later on after people figured out you could bolt the heads from NA SR20VE motors on them and get two very awesome benefits out of it: 1. A much better flowing head and 2. Variable valve lift.

Who knows what kind of options may be available for the FA20 later on down the road...

No I completely understand there safety aspect and in my Miata and S2000 days I liked the look but with my Vette I like to drop the top and just see a Vette that has minor appearance changes and looks clean. I also like that it looks, sounds and appears to be nothing special until I get into it. The exhaust tone, the engine bay everything is clean (although I always think it could be cleaner but I have been driving it more with the FRS down) and mainly stock looking.

Glad we cleared that up though as I in no way hate safety items I think you should build the car to handle the power not just make it faster and say oh shit when you use it.

I'm waiting for Ford....
 

I'm waiting for Ford to release the control pack for the ecoboost 3.5....

100's of thousands of them on the road so plenty junked F150's with them.

Twin turbo 3.5L making 365 hp and 420lb/ft dead stock....

With a tune and a turbine upgrade, you should hit over 500hp all day, more than enough in the 86 for time attack or whatever else you wanna do. Also should end up weighing about the same as a turbo'd FA20...all forged internals with a torture test done on one of the motors that is rather impressive...

Jaden

I've ran several 11's and no one has said boo to me about a a roll bar. Didn't nhra change the rules for late model cars not needing one until 10 something? I mean a bone stock zr1 will run 10's with sticky tires, are they going to tell that guy he needs a bar in his $80,000 car with a dozen airbags? I doubt it.

I'm going tomorrow you can bet I will be asking. Would be nice to see what I can pull off.

Doubt it's as bad as you think. It's still going to be nothing on a damn Audi...


Also forgot that under SCCA roll bar rules, the roll bar wouldn't fit under the convertible or hard top of a Miata :cry:


Dunno if they changed it since, but I remember that being an issue years ago.

This thread is hilarious. Basically it comes down to personal preference.

Static weight balance and a low moment of inertia are nice things to have, but in the real world, it's not some horrific insurmountable disadvantage to have a less than ideal static weight imbalance and a higher moment.

For an all-out track car you're going to be running aero anyway, so you can tune the dynamic weight balance to overcome 50 or 100lbs extra over the front axles. If moment was that big of a deal, nobody would be able to race any factory Audi or Subaru, ever.

1JZ, 2JZ, LS1, 13B, they're all just starting points, and with any of those motors you can build a perfectly fine car. They all have their positive aspects, and they all have some negatives that you'll have to deal with. I'm going 1JZ, mostly because I like those motors and it's a great value for your dollar.

What is the percentage of people that actually participate 100% of their time road/track/WTAC or whatever? How applicable is the weight balance concern to all of us? With that being said, why bash on other people's projects or style of racing? As far as rollcages, I do not know about you but I rather have safety over aesthetics. Wow this site has a vast amount of envious and despondent debaters!

^master debaters

If I did road course events constantly and competitively then yes it would be. But my Vette is a weekend cruiser, street show and event, drag event and lastly road course. Yes I enjoy it but not enough to go after being competitive.

I'm driving it more now with the FRS down but I don't really expect that to change much. The FRS or an S2k or maybe Elise would be my choice for full time road course.
I have no desire to molest a car with maybe 53k miles that I can resale for a considerable amount just because the event I do 8% of the time could benefit from it. But again this is my thought process, plus I also dislike the look, my hard dog in the Miata drove that home.

:rolleyes: says the kid with a charbroiled chassis and wannabe 2JZ :bellyroll:

at least I'm working towards adding another datapoint to this discussion instead of purely more rhetoric. that's more than can be said of what, everyone except one or two other people in this thread?