Quick question about manual shifting
 

Hey guys,

I got a quick question on manual shifting.

I know you are not suppose to skip gears when you up shift.
However, sometimes when you come to a stop say from gear 5 and you brake...then need to go again but you are at a speed for gear 3. Its ok to skip gear 4 and just go to 3 and accelerate?

Wont kill the tranny right?

Based on my experience on forza. If you are downshifting then you could go from 5 to 1 if you are at a stop

Forza Awesome HAHA.

As long as you let the synchros do their jobs you're fine. It helps to rev match on the downshift.

A generally good rule of thumb for whether or not something is "killing" your tranny is if you wince when you feel or hear what you just did. Not a catch all, but generally when the car seems extremely unhappy about the idea you just had, you should take its advice ;)

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The transmission does not have any magic in it that knows if you skip any gears, upshifting or down.

You can skip from any gear to any other gear if you know what you are doing.
caveat: I essentially never downshift to first ever, unless stopped, just an old habit.

If I am passing someone, I might wind it out in third or fourth, then just drop to 6th and coast back to the speed limit.

Or when I am coasting to a stop, I might leave it in a high gear all the way down to 1000 RPM, then slip out into neutral, and choose to coast to a stop, or pick 2nd or 3rd if the light changes and I need to go again.

If you make the bigger jumps slowly (letting the synchros work) or rev match, you are not being hard on the tranny.

Whyyyyy do you "know" this? Who told you this?

This is a myth that's been present ever since the dawn of time it seems...


As stugray says, the conventional gearbox does not care.




Put it in whatever gear you want at any time


accelerate in 1st, shift to 2nd, then plot it into 5th and cruise


you can go from 6th to 1st when slowing down.. it wont care, so long as your speed is appropriate for the gear and you match the revs

If it doesn't let you skip gears, congratulations, when did you become an F1 driver??

:P

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I used to do a 1st, 3rd, and 5th upshift and skip 2nd and 4th with my FD3S. but when downshifting it really depends on what speed and how quickly do I need to slow down.

Generally, downshifting before entering a turn, it's always 5-4-3-2, and I rarely shift into 1st unless I am dead slow or completely stop.

In the regular city driving, it really just downshift to match speed for the rpm, and I usually aim for 3k-3.5k.

I am still getting use to the FRS 6 speed as the car has close gear ratio comparing to all the other 5 speed tranny that I have been driven.

Practice heel/toe or double clutch!!

see I just stay in whatever gear I'm in while braking... then shift into whatever gear I need for exit before I finish my braking


I don't understand why people go 5-4-3-2


the engine braking in production cars is negligible

I go:

old, correct gear ---> new, correct gear.

And brake pads are cheaper than clutches.

Engine braking with RWD is a great way to spin the car on snow or ice.

It's best to downshift so that you're always in an appropriate gear to accelerate. If someone is about to smash into you from behind you can abandon your turn and accelerate to avoid the collision.



- AdrianG

if you're maximum braking into a corner, the only place where you're accelerating is going to be the grass, and I don't think an extra 30 horses are gonna do me any good.

then you are braking too late.

point is, 5-4-3-2 down shifting or braking at 5th and shift into 2nd before enter into the corner, it really doesn't matter as much. IMO it's more the personal preference.

again with close gear ratio like the FRS, skip a gear or two won't make much difference.

personally, I like to be in stay over 2000 rpm, where engine will still make decent power. If I drive a car that makes all its torque at 2000rpm, then honestly I will drive around town in 5th gear most of time.

not too much experience on that, since I am from Vancouver. We only had 2 days of snow last time. Winter driving is not our expertise.

Other than skipping gears on upshifts I also drive this way. Once I've driven a close ratio 6 speed, I find the gear selections so much better that I can never go back to an old school 5 speed. :burnrubber:

I usually just clutch in & put my gear into the gear I want for exit while breaking, then release clutch once I'm about the speed for wit ever gear I want to be in?

I think OP might benefit from riding a bicycle that is equipped with shifters that can shift multiple gears up or down at once, in order to be more easily familiar with the mechanics and behavior of how a transmission works.

I'm surprised that anyone recommends not engine braking. I have always been in the habit of downshifting while decelerating. For example from 80km to a light I might go from 5-4-3 and possibly to 2 for gentle deceleration. Heading for a corner usually progress toward 2 going into the turn for best acceleration out of the turn, sometimes with heel/toe. I just find my brakes last much longer and I've never needed a new clutch. I use gears to supplement the brakes.

If you're maximum braking into a corner, you shouldn't be driving on public roads, that's fucking stupid.



EDIT: I should clarify my original reply. What I mean is you're approaching a right turn in no particular hurry, coming down from say 90km/h. You leave the car in fifth and brake normally getting ready to turn in. You glance in your rear view mirror and you see some fuckwad in a lifted duelly coming up behind you, iPhone 6+ in hand approaching at your original speed, 90km/h. At this point a you're fucked. No chance you're going to make your turn before this truck hits you, and no time to get into a low enough gear to get enough acceleration to at least bring your speed delta up so that fuckwad has more time to realize he's about to hit you, or at least reduce the difference between your speed and his. You're going to have a crash.

Driving properly is how I've lasted 15 years driving the highest-risk roads in Canada year round without a single collision.
@pushrod, I've been through two nasty winters now with my BRZ on the worst winter tires money can buy. They had 40K on them from my previous vehicle and they were shit when they were new too, and I've never spun from downshifting. Come to think of it I haven't spun this car yet, despite my playful/reckless driving style. If you snap oversteer on a downshift you're doing it way too aggressively, way too early, and not rev matching.

and you're fucking stupid for assuming I was talking about public roads


rifle-shifting 5 through 2 on a 60-80km streets is an exercise in masturbation, if you do this every single time I really have nothing to say other than you're simply wasting effort and wearing out parts.

I too have 14 years of collision-free GTA-driving, along with 9 years of track and autocross, so take that bagel and shove it in your mouth.


that whole "acceleration in a hurry" defense is very common, but not very practical. Quick hands and fast reaction will overshadow any horsepower gain on city streets. If someone's barreling down on you from behind, you'd need a McLaren to get your ass out of there.. a standard production car is doomed either way.

I didn't look too closely, but form my perspective you're the only one here talking about anything except public roads.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/0a/0aac...fa71d0200e.jpg

post a 20-30 min video of you driving through GTA rifle-shifting all your braking

who fucking cares? some of us enjoy down-shifting simply because it's fun and we love the sounds our cars make when we do it. that being said i'm not an asshole and will keep it to a minimum if it's late at night or i'm in a subdivision or some shit.

if i stick my downshift just right (especially 3rd to 2nd), i get a shitload of pops and backfires that make me smile. plus i enjoy the motions of rev-match downshifting through the gears to a stop. it's fun. if you think it's "masturbation" or not necessary, you are entitled to your opinion, but i don't give a fuck what anyone else thinks. if you're rifle-downshifting simply to impress other people, THEN you might want to give your head a shake.

as for people saying they "downshift" to 1st...what?! 1st is a starting gear only and you should never ever ever put your shifter into 1st if the car is still in motion (okay more than 5km/h anyways).

downshifting one gear is not the same as going from 5th to 4th to 3rd to 2nd while rolling up to an intersection at city speeds.



not that there's anything WRONG with that, my point was that it's definitely not necessary an proclaiming such a procedure as "good practice" is based on flawed reasoning.


the existence of which is party why the OP even asked this question.

A gear box can be changed out of order at the driver's will and there is no set rule on how you should do it, so long as it fulfills the desired outcome of propelling the car at the desired speed.




It's somewhat useless for the street, but there is nothing inhertetly wrong with downshifting to 1st if your exit speeds are below 40kph. 2nd gear wouldn't have quite the kick (if you need it). Your 1st gear goes up to 55kph... that's you could technically drive in 1st all the time within city limits :) :)

here is clip... I downshift for a pin turn and proceed to do a tight slalom in 1st at max revs.

Of course I'd never bother with this on the street but don't ever think it's a technical impossibility.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaRKCawnkEw&feature=player_detailpage#t=31 "]2014 PITL Autocross #4 - YouTube[/ame]

Toyota/Subaru Development Team:
Engineer 1- "How many gears should we give it"?
Engineer 2 - "Well it really only needs 1st, 3rd and 6th"
Engineer 1 - "Why not the rest"?
Engineer 2 - "All the self proclaimed GOOD drivers will say they just skip them anyway"
Engineer 1 - "We need to keep the costs up so lets put all 6 in anyway"

OH and THAT ladies and gentlemen is sarcasm for any that are not sure!

This debate is flawed in that every person should drive differently according to circumstances not a set pattern.
Do I sometimes skip a gear on rapid acceleration? Certainly!
Do I take my time and granny shift all the way through each gear in slow steady traffic? Certainly!
Do I row through them all on a gradual slow down? Certainly!
Do I skip them all and go to 1st or 2nd in heavy traffic? Certainly!
Do I do exactly the same thing every time regardless of the situation? NEVER!!!!!

so basically what I said in my initial post? :bonk:

Yep, and what everybody else is saying in one way or another as well really!
Everybody just seems stuck on what they "usually" do but then they also seem to go on with something along the line of "but when I ***".
My whole point was that if you do exactly the same thing no matter what you probably need to revisit your driving habits.
Posts like this that ask "how should I shift" or "new to stick what do I do" always just piss me off anyway as it is so subjective there will never be a RIGHT answer and is not a subject that can be discussed purely in theory anyways! Might just as well be asking "how do I change from a walk to a run" or "have only eaten pudding before how do I chew steak".

this is pretty much what i do every time, unless i'm feeling lazy or it's late.

i'm not trying to show off. i think it's fun and i enjoy the sounds my car makes.

is it necessary? probably not, and i'm well aware of that. i could just stick it in neutral and brake. but it's a lot more fun this way!

:burnrubber:

Me too really! But not as a firm rule. Hate the feel of rolling in neutral at anything over a couple of mph as I just don't feel in control so if may car is in motion it is in some gear.

I dont recall who it was but I recently had this discussion on this forum.
Anyone who thinks that downshifting through all of the gears is making them stop faster than brakes alone is fooling themselves.

Of course it is fun, and I do it sometimes too, but if one thinks it makes the car stop faster they need to think again

:thumbup:

Brake pads are cheaper than engines

I think sensible downshifting at appropriate revs/speeds does no harm and causes no excessive wear. When combined with braking it gives me good control to accelerate if need be if traffic starts moving and it slows brake wear. I try to stay in gear until just before stopping most times when stopping and going. Granted this is intolerable in a 2 hour traffic jam but suits me fine for my daily commute. Coasting in neutral delays my ability to accelerate and does nothing to assist braking. I doubt there is an absolute rule regarding this stuff except that the driver must maintain best possible control of his vehicle at all times. My manual cars brakes easily outlast those on my past auto trans cars at least 2 to 1. Incidentally, the clutch on the twins is so light it makes this style of driving quite easy. Both my WRX's have considerably heavier clutches, even the '15.

My old car's Borg Warner DSG automatic program has this same exact shift pattern (rev matches every downshifts and it doesn't skip a gear unless you hit the kickdown) and the clutch packs are rated for 300,000km of service life.

Having said all that and wbradley didn't even need to resort to mentioning how many years he has been behind the wheel. :thumbsup:

GEEEEZ must be rough to have an auto that downshifts all the time. Those guys must go through engines like mad!

Nope not gonna save brakes but unless you really screw up not gonna blow up your engine either.

I think wbradley summed it up nicely.

Was a Mobile Support Equipment Operator in the Army many, MANY years ago and almost took a beating from my instructor for coasting to a stop with clutch pushed in one time. Been in the habit of keeping it in gear ever since. Coasting around with clutch in (or even worse in neutral) turns your car into a big soap box racer with little to no control if you need it.

OH WHY AM I LETTING MYSELF GET SUCKED INTO A DEBATE THAT CAN HAVE NO "WINNER"???????????

Same reason we sometimes downshift through all gears....

If you are special like suberman, you always win.
Well, in your head anyways. Otherwise us mere mortals win some, lose some and learn something new in the process.

well, for one thing an automatic gearboxes are mechanically different from manual ones...


kind of falls under that thing where people say "you should aim to shift as smooth as an auto"... when the process is inherently different....

:bonk:


today we all lose at internets