Interesting Findings on the Dyno - OpenFlash/Vishnu tuned
 

Disclaimer:
I'm not bashing on any tuning and I hope no one does here with this thread. I've loved my OpenFlash tune since day 1, recommended it to many folk around me. With all my mods, I figured it was time to throw it on the dyno to see what I've made being NA...

Dyno:
MaHa LPS 3000 KPW, had 4 runs total

OpenFlash Version:
Off the Shelf v. 2.0 beta

Why:
Research around the Interwebs claim Dynojet, Mustang, and Dynapak all bump their numbers up; the gauges can all be modified and tinkered with. I wanted something realistic, something static and non-adjustable. I chose MaHa specifically for this, partially too because the nearest shop with a Mustang dyno wasn't answering their phone. I found out today MaHa has the capability to hold dyno's longer than the average 10 seconds, it's a highly sophisticated dyno. AND the starting rpms can be captured below 2000rpms -- impossible on Dynojet and Mustang dynos (read-on, you'll see why this is important)

My Mods:
It's a short list of things -- E85 Stage 2 Vishnu Tune, P&L EL Catted Headers, P&L OP, Perrin 3" exhaust, Mishimoto Intake hose, K&N drop-in filter, modified snorkel, and Circuit Werks pulleys.

Stock Dyno:
The numbers seem reasonable, I wouldn't expect the Twins would be anywhere near 200hp to the wheel. The dyno below shows about 137whp, the torque dip is evident on the orange line from 3200 - 4000 rpms.

Some boost will fix that right up.

SWAG says that a table that kicks in right at 4500 is wrong.

Do you have a log?

Compare the Vishnu tune and the stock tune.
then compare OFT tune and the stock tune.

I think RR can even save the comparison IIRC

I don't think that dip is tune related. Looks like a dyno or Dyno operator problem to me. There is literally nothing in the tune file that would cause something like that. I'm willing to offer a free test of your car on a dynojet or mustang dyno to confirm.

Also a mustang dyno is capable of doing everything you describe with respect to the Maha dyno. And you wouldn't need to dyno your car to know if that problem existed as it would be about as obvious as a punch in the face.

Can this be captured now that I'm off the dyno? I'd probably have to have the OFT plugged in, huh?

.ck

I listened in while the car was on the dyno, it almost sounded like the car lost power and ramped quickly back up...all 4 times

.ck

And you attribute this to the tune that thousands of other people run? It's more likely to be caused by something else.

I worry it could be something else, it was consistent on the 4 runs. Can I be any assistance to get you more info about my car? Maybe fuel is getting cut off? I dont know...

No hard feelings man

.ck

How come this thread doesn't show how many times this post has been edited? Must be a vendor thing.

Anyways, I've never been on a dyno in my life. This was a first time thing, and again, I only went on to see what kind of gains I've gotten from all my bolt-ons.

In addition, my latest mod were ducts in my bumper -- it was a test to see if this mod was effective or not. Running a dyno isn't cheap, I could have saved $120 if I didnt think it was worthwhile. I didnt do it to bash on Vishnu, I had hopes I'd crack 205 to the crank (and I did). Wasn't expecting a dip at all.

.ck

Why don't you call the office tomorrow and make an appointment to meet up. I can take a look at your car and datalog some pulls. If there is a problem unique to your car, it will be found. But judging my what I've read so far, I think the only problem is the info you have been given.

@Shiv@Openflash how long are your runs when you dyno?

Big thanks @Shiv@Openflash , I was told another tuner changed all of his maps after getting on the MaHa -- if this applicable to anyone else, so be it. Just want this resolved.

.ck

During standard tuning, about 10-20 second. During heavy loading torture testing, a run can take as long as 1 minute. Duration (ramp up rate) has no big effect on the way the car runs.

Then go to an independent dyno (one that isn't affiliated with an Ecutek tuner) to get an unbiased test and unbiased info/feedback. Because from the data presented here, and the tone of your claims (possibly due to the misinformation you were given), I am led to believe that something else is going on here.

If you want to take me up on my offer to run your car on a 3rd party dyno, let me know.

Shiv

Absolutely will take your offer, thank you. Do you think I should upgrade to 2.061? I'm still on 2.0 beta

.ck

Great. Don't make any changes to your current tune. We will just run it as it is. Just PM me your phone number and someone at the office will call you tomorrow to make dyno arrangements. Just keep in mind that I will update this thread with results (dyno, datalog, extracted ROM file).

Cheers,
Shiv

@DeliciousTuning @R/T Tuning @sales@delicioustuning.com what do you think?

No problem, I'm absolutely fine with you posting our findings. I was going to say that I'd do the same if you weren't.

I'll delete the thread too if we find it to be something completely different.

.ck

How refreshing to see someone (Shiv) standing behind his tune and recommending an independant test, which he will pay for. This is the kind of customer service I like to see and I based on my experience with the OFT tune so far I doubt that the problem is with the tune itself, mine has been excellent. :cheers:

Problem seems reproducible and since it can be heard outside the dyno AND tune doesn't seem like it has been edited. I'd say problem is present but doubtful it has abutting to do with tune

....also 205 crank can probably be hit with stock car and filter

Going to leave this thread alone until we can narrow down the problem. What's odd is, I don't feel any power loss when driving hard. I've asked Shiv to drive my car for a 2nd opinion.

.ck

I can't see how you wouldn't notice such a dip when driving tbh, and if you don't feel any loss of power, it suggests something was happening with the dyno itself? Keep us posted. :cheers:

Their is nothing wrong with this half million dollar MAHA dyno. This was installed and calibrated by MAHA directly and routinely checked as it has a secure direct connection with MAHA.

There is nothing wrong with the operator. He has a right foot, he placed it on the pedal and pushed it to the floor. Pretty hard to mess that up.

We tune on this dyno routinely and it is a whole new world of tuning when on this dyno. I have been lucky enough to tune on it multiple times and half to say it is the best dyno facility I have ever used, and the people are extremely professional.

Here is a video we did last time we were there. It is a 43 second pull in 5th gear starting at 1500 RPM. No problems and you can hear it run smoothly all the way through the powerband.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYBeD3drCK8"]Delicious Stage 1 Endurance Dyno Testing - YouTube[/ame]


By the way we just ran a 13.79 at 99.45mph with the help of this dyno on our Stage 2 E85 tune. Pretty sure that is the fastest NA full FRS/BRZ in the world right now. Thanks Mann Engineering and MAHA.

https://scontent-a-lax.xx.fbcdn.net/...20190799_o.jpg

Cheers,
William Knose
Delicious Tuning

Subd

20hp and 20ft loss for 500rpm should be extremely noticeable on the street. Something so severe looks car related to me. Pulleys? Resonance?

You have the roms and software to go look at the tune to see if there's anything in 4600-5000 rpm range to cause it. Why wouldn't you do this?

I'd prefer threads like this not get deleted, whatever the outcome, instead of generating fear and doubt and then disappearing in a whisp of smoke, which incidentally seems like a lot of people in the tuning industry like to do (or whisper in other people's ears and send them forth to generate fear and doubt).

I agree with this. Regardless of the outcome, this thread shouldn't be deleted as it will surely help others in the future who ever find themselves in the same or similar situation.

Could it just be that the P&L header requires slightly different cam tuning to produce max torque accross all rpm?

Subbed as I have OFT and about to pull the trigger on the same header...

It could be a number of things but the fact that he can't tell any difference when he is driving is the one that puzzles me most.

I would expect stuff like this would be more likely to pop up with all the different UEL header lengths. EL is EL, shouldn't matter so much if it's long or short tube I would think.

I'll go for a spin tomorrow and take it easy, I've been punching it from 4th to 5th so there might be a chance I completely miss this area of dip. The car is too fun, can you blame me? :bonk:

Hypothetically speaking though...is it even possible to miss that dip if I'm driving at higher RPM's?

If the dyno claims it dipped in 5th, then I should be able to replicate it from 4000rpms and upwards, right?

.ck

I would think you should be able to feel it in 3rd and 4th easily, maybe even 2nd. Your right that it's possible you always drive around it, just like you can drive around the torque dip.

I'll echo the above, the drop is far more sever than the stock dip, it would feel like the car hesitates every time you run through it. You would notice it.


Did you flash the tune immediately before hitting the dyno? Any chance the LTFT hadn't settled, causing a lean situation and possible knock correction to occur? That could cause a drop similar to that.

I haven't touched the tune ever since the v.2.0 beta maps were released. I'm a bit dated compared to 2.061

I'll report back tomorrow after my commute to work

.ck

Just saw this thread now... That torque dip you show should be very noticeable when driving, that's worse than the stock dip..... Curious to see results of this. I am OFT stage 2 uel. Love it!

I recognise that, it looks identical to the TC interventions I used to get on my Elise.

Ooo nice observation.

yeah, I thought the same thing. That stock the it made ~200hp at the crank -15% to the wheels.

Would it being catted make a difference? I don't know what header shiv was using to create his EL tune, but I know the UEL was based off the OFH which has no cat.

Im sure he meant to say at the wheels.

I know this is an older tune, but I can still feel it on the newest maps(It's not as bad, but still there). I had somewhat the same issue around 4500rpm. WOT the car would just stop accelerating for a bit, then keep going. Datazip WOT Log

at 4500 rpm (Almost on the dot) you can see the rpm's stagnate, then pick back up. This happens more often in 5th and 6th gear. Even this is extremely noticeable; so I would assume if the car dropped as the dyno showed, he would notice it.