The NA Miata is great. Considering how little Mazda has improved the drivetrain, I don't see why anyone would buy an NC lol.

I like hot rodding too, but I think the motor has to be pushed in NA form before throwing a blower on, just personal philosophy, so I like seeing the high compression ratio engines.

(Runs off to google the new Nissan 510 thing...)

Huh. That's... interesting. They definitely tried to stay true to the style of the original 510, but I feel like someone should have told them that the original 510 was not an attractive car.

Engineers commenting on the new chassis over at Miata.net are saying that is stouter than the NC's and should easily be able to handle greater power - and there is certainly a lot of competitive pressure that should move Mazda to give the ND a better power/weight ratio. The engine on display is thought to possibly be a placeholder.

Given the price for a PRHT version now (thousands above a BRZ Limited in Canada) they'll need to give it a bit of a power boost if they want to attract anyone but hard-core fans.

Cool, I love miatas, and used to own an NA. I've been spoiled with having two rear seats though, I don't think I would own another roadster any time soon.

Definitely take one out for a spin, preferably on a twisty road with the top down & at speeds above the posted speed limit, it will change your perspective. As an owner of a daily driven FRS (splits time with my truck 75%/25%), and a 24 year old NA (previously owned a '91 & '99); I still find the driving experience in the Miata a lil' bit more rewarding & enjoyable than my FRS. That's high praise from me, considering the only other cars I enjoyed driving more than my FRS cost at least 2 or more times a new Toyoburu.

While fun to drive, I don't think the Miata ever "nailed it".

Why?

Because my eyeballs still work, that's why.


Part of "nailing it" also includes making it reasonable to look at besides some stupid shit eating grin. She might be the perfect girlfriend but if you can't stand to look at her, it's hard to fall in love.

So even if the a new miata was almost identical to its predecessors but looked like Mazda's current KODO cars, I would enjoy having one.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

True but all things being equal, ugly cars have fewer "beholders". This is a business after all.

Over 900,000 Miatas have been sold.

Most raced car ever...

If you don't like the Miata...that is fine...

But it has been a commercial success for a reason (just like the Twins).

As silly as it sounds... I don't like smiling cars either.

Now there.. before we go getting too defensive, I'm not denigrating the quality, aptitude or importance of the Miata. Mazda is King of Kings in my eyes and big part of that is because they've always offered a car like the Miata even when it isn't financially viable to do so.
Most raced car? Well shit, it's an affordable sports car that's been on sale for 26 years and most of that time, it was the only one of its kind. Statistically, being the most raced car is only logical.

Numbers don't lie, but sometimes they don't tell the whole story either.

So let's talk about that 900k units sold figure. That's a Global Sales Figure from 1989-2011. That's 22 Years. Point of reference for "commercial success". From 2003-2013 (10 years) Mazda has sold 1.03 million Mazda3's just in the USA.

As for not liking the Miata, well that's just not true. I love the Miata. I just hate its face. ;)

I don't dislike the miata, its platform is IMO even better than the GT86, but I wish it had a coupé version (always with only 2 seats), even it it would add up to 50 kg.

I like smiley cars. technically the BRZ is smiley too. Just sayin.

those statistics arent an accident though. things do well, because they are good. its kind of silly to take away from the cars track history because of the fact that it does all the thing necessary to make it the most tracked car ever.

I don't know if "accidental statistics" is a course I missed in school. :bellyroll:

You're inferring something that wasn't there to infer. Nothing is being taken away from the car by countering the use of the term "commercial success" as a point of reference.

If there was another Miata-esque car of rough equivalence that sold in direct competition as the Miata and spanned the same time period... the 900k figure would surely be different and perhaps the "most raced car" name-tag would be as well. The same can be said for the Camaro, if there was no Mustang; or the Insight, if there was no Prius. Do you see what I'm getting at?

"Things do well because they are good." :lol:
... and have no real economic competition.
... don't get canceled despite low volume.
... have lots of racing/track support from the OEM.
... are very cost effective to race.
...

There's more to the car, than just the car in this case. It's no accident that's part of what made this car so great. I hope the existence of things like the Twins, force the Mazda to make the Miata better, if nothing else better looking.

Well.. It looks like Mazda may not want my money after all. Good, however, for those who like "happy" looking cars.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Secret-...dster-project/


http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/upload/...spider.a03.jpg


Supposedly this is just a "test-mule" and there are no confirmations of how much it resembles the actual looks of the 2015 Model Year car. What's also not been released yet is the design look of the Alfa version.

Please Alfa, sell your version in the states. Americans need more Miata-esque cars!


Another edit: Another Car and Driver article says this test mule is Alfas, just using an old MX-5 shell. http://www.caranddriver.com/news/201...py-photos-news

The more I look the more I feel people like us are a tiny tiny minority. I wish some company would produce a lower priced 2 seater fixed roof RWD car with serious sporting pretentions, but I think most people buy sporty cars because they just want to cruise top down. I see more Cabrio 911s than fixed top ones by a large margin (drop top 911 Turbo is a common poser car in Cali), far more Boxsters than Caymans, and more convertible Mercedes E class and BMW 3 series than fixed roof ones. I drove past a McLaren dealer after the 4C Spider came out, and they stocked way more of those than the normal fixed roof 4C, and all the customers rolling in for service and crap had the Spider too.

It sucks even more that putting a hard top on a convertible isn't the same as a car that came in 1 piece in the first place. The latches get loose, the hard tops are usually extremely rare and expensive, the aerodynamics are usually terrible, they don't provide much added stiffness, etc.

from what i gather, your argument gets boiled down to "the miata is good enough to have a virtual monopoly on the market and because of that monopoly, its success cant be determined since there is no competition." there have definitely been competitors to the miata and it has stood the test of time. there is a reason for that. the car is great.

I'm more excited for the Alfa version, but I've heard it might be a Fiat instead, which could be good or bad.

Alfa/Fiat should have the 170hp 1.4L turbo from the Dart/500 Abarth. I would much rather have that engine over a skyactive NA powerplant.

To be fair, the first test mules of the twins were kinda ungainly too.
Sorta like a Japanese 318Ti

I will let you continue your gathering then because you're still missing it.

Miata is not a "great" car and this is why (prose).
 

Now I'm obsessing.



The Miata is a good car. But is love more than just ticking all the right boxes?

First of all I know I'm not alone, dozens of others in my circle of enthusiasts that have never wanted a Miata, have always wanted what the Miata is. But ask anyone of them (including myself) why they don't or never have owned a Miata the answer is; Well, "because it's a Miata". But what does that mean?

It checks all the boxes: Double arms front/rear, sporty high revver 4 banger, light, nimble, rwd, 4 wheel discs, 2 seat drop top which is both affordable and reliable. Frankly, If I had to guess, I'm looking at a recipe for the ideal sports car right there. However, it's still missing that certain 'je ne sai quoi'. Here we have a car that stands alone, unparalleled, through much of its life yet appears to be as unique as it is uniquely unremarkable. It's almost as if the designers came from a culture where it's considered sinful to create something that is exciting to look at, even when creating something that is exciting! I would imagine these same people would design the worlds fastest roller-coaster but somehow make it look like 1980's mono-rail with cars shaped like 1990's Camrys...and paint it beige.

So many, many people looked past this and frankly they would be right to because there was nothing else like it from anyone and once behind the wheel the car delivers on the 'joie de vivre'. But it never occurred to my desires that a Miata was for me. I don't know if it was a case of me being a teenager in the 1990's and not pursuing a career as a beautician but affordable fun in the mid-90's looked like MR2s, CRXs or even my dad's old Alfa Spyder. What's funny is that in 1995 I begged my dad not to sell his old Alfa Spyder because I was turning 16 soon and I wanted that little red convertible so goddamn bad, but he did and it took me years to forgive him. It never registered on my radar that the Miata was a modern equivalent because the Miata never registered with me aesthetically. Perhaps I'm not the best critic of beauty because 1995 the wallpaper on my computer monitor was a CRX si, I just thought that car was the bees-knees. I'd like to think that was youth based ignorance but it's 2014 and I'm my 3rd CRX.

For the record, the Alfa was crap compared to the Miata. However, I wanted the Alfa. It's very difficult to quantify in terms of emotional connectivity and not make comparisons to women but in sports car terms, the Miata is the sports car you should probably settle down with for a long term motoring relationship, introduce it mom, have a few sports car babies, because it's not gonna do you wrong, look at other straight men, get into trouble or break down. It's loyal. It's reliable. It's a goddamn Miata. So then maybe the problem is the Miata doesn't appeal to people with varying degrees of masochism or folks who need an external source to feed an emotional void. Paging Dr. Freud!

The prevalence in racing also further stirs the pot but is making the case for the Miata or Mazda? Mazda has factory programs and support for Spec Pinata, more so then any other manufacturer and getting into Spec Miata is cheap and easy and the racing is very competitive. Mazda isn't in F1 or Indy or NASCAR.. Mazda is in grassroots racing with what arguably the greatest grassroots racecar. Mazda is the RBR/Vettel of the grassroots motorsports world. But maybe that's it, maybe at some point we're all kind of hoping something else will win for a change, something that gets us excited, something... remarkable. But alas, we only get flashes in the pan, short bursts of brilliance but all with a one or more boxes resoundingly "un-ticked". We got the W20 MR2 NA and Turbo, the S2000, 300zx, RX7, Civic/CRX si, Integra GSR/Type R, 350z, Z3 and so on. But not a single one of them check all the boxes like the Miata did and still does. Too heavy or too expensive or unreliable or inefficient or fwd or short production run. None of these are like a Miata.

For 24 years, 24 YEARS (89-2013), nobody has had an answer to the Miata. Nobody. This correlation doesn't mean the Miata is great, oh no, this correlation means that Mazda is great. Mazda, the only company that felt the world needed a car like the Miata, a car nobody else was willing to produce and they continued to produce it during the good times and the bad times (like the last 6 years!). It is because of this that the answer to most sport-car questions is: Miata. Perhaps some of us are hoping for a different answer.


Are you ready for the twist?






And that's why the Twins matter. That's why the Twins receive resounding accolades. That's why the Twins are greater, much greater than the sum of their parts. They. Are. Not. A. Miata. Only time will tell if Toyota will show the Twins the same love Mazda shows their Miata.

The FRS is the Miata I always wanted.

Sporty high revver 4 banger. LOL. Can't tell if trolling or serious.

The Miata is a fantastic car and has been from day one. The new one looks to be a bit more cab-rearward, possibly more rearward weight distribution. I'm looking forward to it :)

I hope sky active gives it a few more horses just to make it better than the current gen. This would be a go kart for 2.

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If the Miata has a monopoly on the market, that might explain why it doen't look more manly, have more power and exist as coupé version.

They mentioned that some models might dip under 2000 lbs... if they DO achieve something weight and 200hp from tweaking their 2.0L, that will be Golden.

What about the S2000? And to a lesser extent the MR-S and Sky/Solstice.

None of them have had the same success as the Miata despite them being arguably better cars.

Why not?

Well, at least for the s2k, price could be a large part of the reason: it was substantially more expensive than the Miata, so it really wasn't competing in the same price bracket.

with the miata i dont think its the case even though it makes sense. i think that its just mazda sticking to the philosophy that put the car on the map. its always just been the quintessential brittish roadster except it wasnt always broken.
they wont. the miata will never be about that.

Kinda disagree... I'm sure we don't need a drag racer miata, but just sticking an economy engine carried over from the Mazda3 is lazy. They can do better.

I mean, why have a turbo miata special edition, or keep increasing engine power throughout production years if it was just a nice to have?

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I'll probably ruffle a few feathers but I don't know that I'd call the Solstice/Sky "arguably better". Perhaps if it wasn't killed prematurely & had a generation or so to refine itself.

S2000, was much pricier than the Miata of it's time. The MR-S was about as close as anyone's gotten to "a Miata that's not a Miata" & I think it should still be in production.

Yeah, I concur.

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IMO the MR-S had a pretty serious practicality issue, because I own one :P

However, if they gave it manual steering (which it would be 100% okay with), the frunk could be expanded to fit a large suitcase, and with gas struts in the front the practicality would be considerably better. That said, as with the Corolla, I would be pretty upset to find a 1ZZ under the hood in 2010 or later, which they inevitably would've done.

Assuming they don't make any stupid mistakes, this new Miata could be a real competitor! In my opinion, the Miata has always been lacking in a few areas: power, fuel economy, styling, technology (eg. no nav system), and too much body roll. There is a good chance that they will address all of these things with the next generation. The SkyActiv engine is capable of producing a lot of power while retaining good fuel economy. So this thing could be as fun or even more fun than an S2000 if they do it right.

And so I really hope that they revise the 86/BRZ next year to combat it.

the maita has always had the economy engine taken from the 3 so i dont see why it would be a problem now. its not lazy. its cost effective. if you want the cheapest convertible sports car, there are going to be compromises and that is such a small compromise and im sure it saves some serious money.

But didn't the later miata engines have a bit more power than the regular powerplants? Id say those are different engines. If they massaged the CX5 engine to developed a bit more power, I'd be satisfied with the Miata platform.

On the other topic, with the Miata possibly weighing something in the neighborhood of 2000 pounds, that sexy double wishbone suspension all around, and possibly 170ish Hp, I see the twins competing if they add some power to even the Hp to weight ratio.

Very eager to see what Mazda can bring to the table

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i doubt its going to be directly ripped out of a 3. im sure there will be differences. they havent mentioned anything either way so i dont know why youre calling them lazy. i dont think mazda cares about the twins. just like they didnt care about all the other competition. whether thats a good or bad thing boils down to opinion but i appreciate the fact that they have always built the car they want instead of responding to the market. thats how compromises happen and its why cars are heavy and have 400hp..

For those who complain about the Miata's looks, it can be more aggressive...

http://naritadogfight.files.wordpres...10/dsc9276.jpg

Not Mazda, but anybody who doesn't put in a bit more effort. It might have made sense for Toyota to put the "remaining" 2az-fe engines in the Matrix and Corolla XRS models, but they certainly weren't more exciting than the earlier models with the 2zzge (taken out due to emission compliance issues?).

Subaru also carried over the previous STI engine into the new chassis for 2015... Even if.the.overall packaged significantly improves from the previous model, it has not been received that we'll.

Don't call it lazy; call it lame then. Jajaja

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