To be fair, even a $1000 upgrade to the 86 get's it a set of Michelin Pilot Super Sports (or better) + Camber bolts + Brake Pads + Fluid. $1500 gets all the above and an OFT e85 tune, and that pretty much ends this comparison. So the only reasonable apples to apples comparo is base model vs base model.

Eep typo. I meant z4 28i vs z4 35is

Ignoring the existence of different trims is kind of numbingly retarded. Why are twins owners so insecure about their own cars that they are hoping the Miata is slower?

So when you look at the Genesis coupe you arent allowed to look at the 3.8? When you look at a Mustang you are only allowed to compare the v6 and not the GT?

So given your exampke you arent allowed to compare the gt4 to anything because it isnt a base trim? That is retarded.

"its not fair cause the frs doesnt have a sports trim" well whose fault is that? Mazda's? You equip bilsteins from the factory, thats foul play, wahhhhhh. Grow up. These are all cars you can get off the show room floor, of course they should be compared. WITH THE PRICE DIFFERENCE INCLUDED.

@totopo

That's not what I am saying at all. What I AM saying is, its not fair to compare lets say a gt500 mustang vs a base c6 vette. The fair comparison would be a gt500 vs. a c6 z06 or zr1 corvette (I personally think the base c6 vette does certain things better than a gt500 though).

Or a GT mustang vs a 1le camaro. The more fair comparison would be a GT mustang Vs. an SS camaro.

The twins do have trims. But for some odd reason people ignore them. BRZ tS vs a club miata...

How bout that?

There is more done to the Club miata than slapping some shocks on them. You should look it up.

Anyways. Just because its a "trim" of a car. Does not mean its the same car. STi was a trim of the WRX and until recently the WRX was a trim of the Impreza.

I doubt anyone would disagree with me when I say an STi is not an Impreza.

Why the hell not compare all of them. The important thing is the price.

Current miata sport: 23k
Current miata club: 27k
Fr-s: 25k
Brz tS: 37k (Japan only)

Why is it not fair to compare the Miata club to the basically same price brz? When people here talk about the 370z and compare price they always say the 370z sports is more expensive because its around 30k and ignore the base which is around 27k these days. People here go through all kind of mental gymnastics to discount any non twin car.

trololololol


FTFY

:cheers:

Edit: The improvements I posted are not speculation, the result absolutely is between both of us.

@totopo
1. You're not going to get very far in life insulting people when you disagree with them, especially on little stuff like this bench racing.

2. I don't know anyone that would call a +1 wheel size increase, uprated tires, Bilstein shocks an a LSD, improved front & rear splitters and $3000 to the base price apples to apples. Most importantly, there's been no "club" version of the ND Miata announced. Do you think that the base ND will come with all the above? Maybe some bits, maybe none. The club Miata still doesn't represent the car most people buy, instead a specialty package to make up some of the base models shortcomings. If that existed in the '86 world would you accept it? What if that included 12 lbs of boost? Still apples to apples? You might not agree with any of this logic, and that's ok. Just try to keep it civil.

@totopo and @tahdizzle Yes, there are cosmetic variants of the FR-S/BRZ but not performance variants. That's why people don't really bring up series Blue, Monogram, etc.

There are many Japan only Miatas, which are all pretty much Club miatas with some cosmetics. I do not feel it is unfair to compare a japan only miata to a japan only brz.

Club Sport Miata as tested in the linked 2013 article: $27,950
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited: $27,495

Maybe the different spring rates would help the BRZ win the lateral g test...

:thumbsup:

@strat61caster

By saying "I don't think", it automatically implies speculation.

The redundancy award goes to you my friend.

No one claimed that what you posted about the miata was incorrect. Only thing that was said was you were speculating that the miata will be faster than the outgoing one.

You regurgitating stuff from publications which NONE say that the ND miata IS FASTER THAN THE NC MIATA.

You are GUESSING/ASSUMING/SUPPOSING however you want to say it. But just because its a little lighter (yes a little lighter) and has 10 Ft*lbs more torque (guess HP doesnt' really matter in 0-60) it HAS to be faster than the old one.

Brilliant, compare the BRZ luxury option to the Miata performance edition. That just might work.

BRZ limited is not even close to a base car. But I'm sure the BRZ limited's dual zone climate, HIDs and leather seats made up for the Miata Club Edition's Bilstein shocks, Limited slip diff, splitters, and uprated wheels and tires. A base FR-S costs $25,700 in 2013. Let me mod up to MX-5s $27,495 and the Miata Club gets smoked every time. Apples to apples or nothing.

Aren't we car enthusiasts here? It's like when your non car friends go, what's faster, a bmw or Porsche? isn't that infuriating? WHICH BMW AND WHICH PORSCHE.

so in the same way, why the he'll are you interested in trying to say "the twins are faster/slower than a miata". is it that hard to add the qualifier base or club? Like no one will be able to understand the difference? Why are you so afraid that another car may be faster? Is that why you bought the car? The entire point of the twins was to forgoe track times for fun.

I think in this forum it's generally understood that both the Miata and 86 were built with fun in mind first. However the point being debated here turned to "speed". In a conversation about speed, comparisons will inevitably be made, so the next question is "is this a fair comparison".

Miata "fun" edition = base
86 "fun" edition = base

Miata "performance" edition = club
86 "performance" edition = non-existant because, paraphrased from Tadasan "you make it yourself with the help of the aftermarket".

I also thought this point was also well understood about the 86. The aftermarket will provide the performance people individually desire, not the factory. That's been stated and repeated many times. So that's why the most reasonable way to compare performance of these cars is to compare base models.