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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Engine Swaps (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=92)
-   -   Vorshlag LSX kit (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=71640)

Vracer111 05-08-2015 03:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianhj (Post 2241247)
Why central exit? I don't get it

Do you just have a boner for them?
Less unnecessary mass, more centrally located mass (reduced MOI for quicker responsiveness), and is easier to make a more effective diffusor when you don't have a large muffler with dual tips being in the way of things out back.

See this example...

The only reason the FR-S has dual wide rear exit from the factory is for looks... it's not for performance goals.

Floggin Tires 05-10-2015 09:03 PM
@cf6mech
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floggin Tires (Post 2218248)
Speaking of transmission.
2.66 or 2.97?

lithiumion 05-10-2015 09:18 PM
this kit is a mfkin problem.

brianhj 05-10-2015 09:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lithiumion (Post 2243946)
this kit is a mfkin problem.
What does that even mean?

Tank 05-10-2015 11:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianhj (Post 2243957)
What does that even mean?
I believe our friend here is trying to articulate that a great deal of time, care, engineering, and problem-solving expertise has gone into the development of this kit thus far.

Whatabouteggs 05-10-2015 11:57 PM
Really digging the PVC driveshaft right now.

lithiumion 05-12-2015 04:45 AM
Furthermore, I aim to convey the difficulty that I believe many of us are experiencing as we not only pace in circles waiting to see more, but also attempt to align reality with our need for the kit to be a part of our lives. The carpeting shows signs of wear beneath me. When, not if, the structure beneath that fails; well I'll simply be in the basement, but after that! The next level is hell itself.

hmong337 05-14-2015 10:44 PM
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YwOcLiPwx8"]This Week at Vorshlag, May 8th, 2015 - YouTube[/ame]

cdrazic93 05-15-2015 04:54 AM
:O I like the way the video started. I honestly thought it was going to be a true dual exhaust.

The longer I watched the video, the more I want to be an engineer at Vorshlag.

ZDan 05-15-2015 05:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdrazic93 (Post 2250287)
:O I like the way the video started. I honestly thought it was going to be a true dual exhaust.
I have a similar exhaust on my LS2/L92 FD: headers into two 3" ID Magnaflow cats, Y'd into a single 3" back to a Racing Beat muffler. Made 463rwhp with a mild (222/230 .597") cam. Not much if any benefit to "true duals" at this power level IMO.

BRZR1 05-15-2015 01:39 PM
Ugh... I'm so impatient... LoL... They say "next time" but they only update like once every six weeks... what I really want to know is the Lead time to production for a full swap kit...

cf6mech 05-22-2015 11:02 PM
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28670HD_rCQ"]FRS LS1 First Fire - YouTube[/ame]

Floggin Tires 05-22-2015 11:04 PM
F n A cf6mech,
You deserve it.
Congratulations.

brianhj 05-22-2015 11:13 PM
Nice!!!

Captain Snooze 05-23-2015 06:33 AM
This swap has no appeal to me what so ever and yet I want it so bad.
*confused*

Captain Snooze 05-23-2015 07:47 AM
Stupid question time. Ready?
Not knowing anything about American V8s and doing a quick Google what is it about the LS1 that makes it so appealing over the myriad of other U.S. V8s available?
Am I correct in saying that an LS6 is externally the same as an LS1?

brianhj 05-23-2015 09:20 AM
I'd say availibility, size and price

Not sure about LS6

FirestormFRS 05-23-2015 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze (Post 2259710)
Stupid question time. Ready?
Not knowing anything about American V8s and doing a quick Google what is it about the LS1 that makes it so appealing over the myriad of other U.S. V8s available?
Am I correct in saying that an LS6 is externally the same as an LS1?
Small block Chevy engines are relatively cheap. Parts are cheap. The OHV configuration makes them short compared to OHC engines. They are pretty damn bullet proof at stock levels. They are plentiful if you blow one up you can find another and have it in hand within a week.

civicdrivr 05-23-2015 04:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze (Post 2259710)
Stupid question time. Ready?
Not knowing anything about American V8s and doing a quick Google what is it about the LS1 that makes it so appealing over the myriad of other U.S. V8s available?
Am I correct in saying that an LS6 is externally the same as an LS1?
Yes, the LS-whatever are externally the same size, save intake manifold differences and accessories. The only engine that isn't the same is the LS4, which is a FWD config that was used in the later model Impala SS'.

The LS6 is from the C5 'Vette Z06. You can run it but LS1s are more popular. Both are 5.7l, but the difference is in the heads and I believe the pistons (I may be wrong on this though). Both are aluminum blocks.

The truck engines, which are a dime a dozen, are typically iron blocks, but there are a few that are aluminum. I'm targeting the L33, which is an aluminum block 5.3l and utilizes similar heads as the LS6. A port job and a nice street cam should net 390ish whp and be nearly bulletproof at that. At current rates, I expect that build to run about $1900 max.

Unfortunately, prices for the aluminum engines are on the rise thanks to the drift tax, but they're still cheap compared to other engines.

Sent from my XT1095

cdrazic93 05-23-2015 09:27 PM
Plus, cams on any LS motor, make it sound like a TREX is about to come out of your pipes.

brianhj 05-23-2015 10:59 PM
@cf6mech When it's finished I'll drive up to you and give you $50 cash if you let me take it for a spin

Floggin Tires 05-23-2015 11:20 PM
And I still want trans ratio.
2.66 or 2.97?

Calum 05-24-2015 05:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cf6mech (Post 2259446)

Congratulations man. That was a delightfully uneventful first fire.

carbonBLUE 05-24-2015 08:58 PM
@cf6mech would you be willing to let someone ride shotgun next weekend? PM me if you want to :). When my engine goes this will be my swap!

cf6mech 05-25-2015 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floggin Tires (Post 2260274)
And I still want trans ratio.
2.66 or 2.97?
Not sure which option Vorshlag picked for the Tremec, but I'm sure it was the correct one of the two, they worked directly with a Tremec rep. and are aware of the ultimate purpose for the car.

Floggin Tires 05-25-2015 07:14 PM
Right on.
That is a sweet gearbox my friend.
Can't wait for you to get down with your fresh machine.

cf6mech 05-25-2015 07:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by carbonBLUE (Post 2260964)
@cf6mech would you be willing to let someone ride shotgun next weekend? PM me if you want to :). When my engine goes this will be my swap!
I'm not expecting it back anytime real soon, there's still work to be done and then debugging and track testing later. No problem when its done getting a ride.

cf6mech 05-25-2015 07:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floggin Tires (Post 2261842)
Right on.
That is a sweet gearbox my friend.
Can't wait for you to get down with your fresh machine.
Its probably my favorite part of the swap,...wanted this same gearbox for my Boss Mustang as I wasn't to pleased with the Chinese made remote shifting Getrag

Captain Snooze 05-25-2015 07:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floggin Tires (Post 2260274)
And I still want trans ratio.
2.66 or 2.97?
Sorry, another noob question.
What is being asked here?

civicdrivr 05-25-2015 07:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze (Post 2261851)
Sorry, another noob question.
What is being asked here?
The t56 has two different first gear ratios available. 2.97 is (obviously) shorter, but slightly weaker than the 2.66 first gear ratio.

Sent from my XT1095

Captain Snooze 05-25-2015 08:23 PM
Thanks @civicdrivr.

Next "I have no idea about these things" question.
Given the smaller mass of this project car might a 6 speed box result in too much ratio overlap? That is, given the lowish mass of car and monster torque spread of the V8 might a 5 speed box suffice?

cdrazic93 05-25-2015 08:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze (Post 2261913)
Thanks @civicdrivr.

Next "I have no idea about these things" question.
Given the smaller mass of this project car might a 6 speed box result in too much ratio overlap? That is, given the lowish mass of car and monster torque spread of the V8 might a 5 speed box suffice?
Yes, a 5spd would probably work better with a 2.97 ratio while the 6spd would better suffice with the 2.66. Im guessing since A LOT of thought, years, and effort went into this R&D and swap kit; im assuming they realized 2700 lbs and 350whp is good enough reason for the 2.66 first gear

Its always nice to see people asking questions about cars after reading/doing hobby research. Reading only gets you so far before questions arise that need to be answered, keep at it Capt :thumbsup:

Floggin Tires 05-25-2015 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze (Post 2261913)
Thanks @civicdrivr.

Next "I have no idea about these things" question.
Given the smaller mass of this project car might a 6 speed box result in too much ratio overlap? That is, given the lowish mass of car and monster torque spread of the V8 might a 5 speed box suffice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdrazic93 (Post 2261916)
Yes, a 5spd would probably work better with a 2.97 ratio while the 6spd would better suffice with the 2.66. Im guessing since A LOT of thought, years, and effort went into this R&D and swap kit; im assuming they realized 2700 lbs and 350whp is good enough reason for the 2.66 final drive.

Its always nice to see people asking questions about cars after reading/doing hobby research. Reading only gets you so far before questions arise that need to be answered, keep at it Capt :thumbsup:


As far as the transmission applied in this swap.
Two Gearsets are available as follows.
1st--2nd-3rd-4th-5th-6th-Reverse
2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 .74 .50 2.90
2.97 2.10 1.46 1.00 .80 .63 2.90

Both choices we have a double overdrive.
Meaning for every 1 revolution of the crank into the trans,
you get more than one revolution out of the output shaft, and driveshaft.
ie: in 5th and 6th gear

Also 4th gear being 1:1 means,
In 4th gear the Crank spins once the output shaft spins once.

I'd rock the 2.66.
Enough torque to accelerate in whatever range.
Highway cruising like a champ.
That being said I would do either in a heartbeat.

civicdrivr 05-25-2015 10:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Floggin Tires (Post 2262010)
Waring this post could be filled with errors.

Its easy to get confused here.
Some say final drive is the Ring and pinion (differential) Ratio.
Other say ▼
Final drive is the Ratio of,
Final gear ratio(♠) times Ring and pinion ratio (♣)
So, ♠x♣ = Final Drive.

Some also include the above along with factoring overall tire circumference.

This post is not to tell you which way is right, its for your info.
My Opinion▼
I've always called Final drive the Ring and Pinion Ratio.
Actually, I rarely use the term Final Drive.

The way Ratios are measured is as follows.
The rear differential for example is 4.1:1.
So it takes the driveshaft rotating 4.1 times into the diff to spin the axles one time.
Hence the ratio of (4.1 to 1) or (4.1:1)

As far as the transmission applied in this swap.
Two Gearsets are available as follows.
1st--2nd-3rd-4th-5th-6th-Reverse
2.66 1.78 1.30 1.00 .74 .50 2.90
2.97 2.10 1.46 1.00 .80 .63 2.90

Both choices we have a double overdrive.
Meaning for every 1 revolution of the crank into the trans,
you get more than one revolution out of the output shaft, and driveshaft.
ie: in 5th and 6th gear

Also 4th gear being 1:1 means,
In 4th gear the Crank spins once the output shaft spins once.

So,
assuming the rear differential remains stock gearing = 4.1:1 ratio.
The 2.66 having a .50 6th gear
The 2.97 having a .63 6th gear

Final drive on 2.66 is 4.1x.50 = 2.05:1
Final drive on 2.97 is 4.1x.63 = 2.58:1

I'd rock the 2.66.
Enough torque to accelerate in whatever range.
Highway cruising like a champ.
That being said I would do either in a heartbeat.
This particular car is using a Magnum box, so the 5/6 ratios are not necessarily tied to the 1/2/3/4 ratios. Assuming this car is running a 2.66 box, there's a very good chance 5/6 is .80/.63.

Sent from my XT1095

Skurj 06-03-2015 07:53 PM
Ready to take my money yet? ...

brianhj 06-03-2015 07:54 PM
What are they currently working on, specifically?

The suspense is killing me

cf6mech 06-04-2015 07:22 AM
Tune,Dyno....Can-Bus.

HATED1 06-05-2015 04:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skurj (Post 2273577)
Ready to take my money yet? ...
I am in the same boat as well, lol

Draco-REX 06-06-2015 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Snooze (Post 2259710)
Stupid question time. Ready?
Not knowing anything about American V8s and doing a quick Google what is it about the LS1 that makes it so appealing over the myriad of other U.S. V8s available?
Am I correct in saying that an LS6 is externally the same as an LS1?
Quote:
Originally Posted by FirestormFRS (Post 2259741)
Small block Chevy engines are relatively cheap. Parts are cheap. The OHV configuration makes them short compared to OHC engines. They are pretty damn bullet proof at stock levels. They are plentiful if you blow one up you can find another and have it in hand within a week.
To expound upon the size difference:
http://www.speednik.com/files/2013/06/ohcvspushrod.jpg

Left is a Toyota V8, right is a LS V8. (Technically, it's a LQ iron block motor, but the dimensions are the same.) You can see why they are popular for swaps. They'll fit into the engine bay of even a Miata and still make 300hp without any real effort, and just go up in power from there.

Here's an example:
http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet-Perf...ductId=1941625

That's a new crate motor, so it's $$$. But it's a good example. Same size as the motor above, but 525hp/489tq without turbos or superchargers. For a less expensive route, you can get a hold of a LS3 out of a wrecked Corvette/G8/VXR8/Commodore etc. and you'll start at 400+hp and a cam, intake manifold, and head work can bump the power close to that crate engine.

And that's the straightforward way to make power on a LS motor. Remember that Iron LQ block above? Well, it'd be pretty heavy, but you can get aluminum blocked truck motors based on the LS that are cheap, easy to find, and take a LOT of boost/nitrous.

Streetthrowback 06-06-2015 12:35 PM
is everything retained on the brz? Tracton, cluster etc


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