Forbes Magazine: BRZ = future collectible car
 

Business/Econ publisher named the subaru brz one of ten future collectible cars on the market... i guess investors are even digging the BRZ

link - http://www.forbes.com/pictures/ehmk4...13-subaru-brz/

By the time any of these cars is old enough to be considered a classic, non-autonomous vehicles will probably have been banned from public roads and most people who care about cars will be dead.

Also, I doubt any of the cars on this list will be the next GTO... they're all mass-produced cars that don't differ significantly from their contemporaries and have no racing pedigree. The BRZ may hold its value better than most things on that list, but I wouldn't call it collectible. Also, current GTI's becoming collectible? Hahahahahahahaha...

I highly doubt it.. There will simply be too many of them on the road, and too many of them modified bad enough to attract the rice kiddies..

I think these cars will continue to depreciate at a pretty quick rate used. Probably more like a used Miata than a used Supra...

It would possibly be one if they discontinued production of at least the brz but other than that I don't really see it being one.

If the cheap RWD market dries up again like it did for a while prior to the twins coming out, they could hold a bit of value compared to the usual depreciation... But collector car? No way.

I always find that cars have a "terminal value" - the dollar amount that it just sits at after it "fully" depreciates. I think the twins will have a reasonably high terminal value compared to other 25k cars, but to be a collector car, it implies that you would MAKE money on it. I doubt that will happen. BUT, in 12 years, you still may have to pay 13k for a clean one, which would be great for the seller at that point but nowhere near collector status.

I don't think the definition of a collector's car is being able to profit from it. You can't really sell a FD RX7 for more than its MSRP, but I would still consider it a modern collector's car.

I think the BRZ and certain models of the FRS will be very desirable 20-30 years from now. Cars are having more and more technology packed in to them (backup cameras, self parking, hybrid systems, digital gauges, etc). The twins are relatively basic when it comes to technology, and I think that along with its relatively low weight, steering feel, and emphasis on handling will really attract automotive enthusiasts in the future. I can only imagine how hard it will be to find a stock 2013 BRZ in the year 2045.

I agree with the twins potentially becoming an collectors car. It depends on what kind of following it develops and where it goes.

Robins are collector cars. AE86s are collector cars, Supras are collector cars, Z cars are collector cars.

Being mass produced does not mean they cannot be collector cars.

Thanks for teaching me about terminal value.... No wonder the 2001 mr2 never goes down in price

I was hoping for discontinue in 2015

The BRZ has a better chance than the FRS. I had a dream last night I totaled my FRS and bought a SWP BRZ. I was so happy!

If it weren't for the discounts I get through Toyota. The BRZ limited would have been my choice hands down.

I think a manual Monogram will be worth more than a Limited BRZ since the majority of Monograms are said to be automatic.

So, this car is not as collectible as, say, an MGB or TR6 (GT6 to be a coupe)?

It is an extremely good looking car and drives exceptionally well. It should be pretty much bulletproof forever, rebuilding the engine and transmission will not be necessary for a long time and even then will be relatively easy and cheap to do.

I think these cars will be built for a long time and enjoyed as very old classic cars, particularly as more mainstream cars become less and less interesting to drive.

The value will be in stock, unmodified ones. Try finding one of those.

I think that if the lightweight RWD market heats up it will drive up desire for these cars because they will be seen as the car that restarted that market. That alone would be a reason for someone who was really into car history to go out and pay for a clean one.

That's why the stock shocks are still in my garage...lol

lol...
 

Says the guy who sold his car to buy a four door, heavier car with the same engine making 56 more hp at 16 psi boost....

Jaden :thumbup:

Yes, and I am also grounded enough to know the WRX has just about as much chance of being a collectors car as a BRZ....

I love the BRZ. I am a big fan of lightweight RWD fun cars. But the only way I see the BRZ being a collectors car is if Subaru would have had a very limited production run on them. It's just the reality of the situation.

I think a point in time will come that the 2013 GBS BRZ has some collectible value.

ONLY one year production run, less than 5K cars here in USA are GBS BRZ.

Over 700,000 first generation (1967-1969) Camaros were built, and they are one of the hottest collectors cars around.

you'd have better luck investing in blackberry....

do I think it will be a collector's car???
 

who knows...

But the comparison you made is invalid for so many reasons...

The Supra became a collectible car for many reasons. The main one was NOT performance. In stock trim even the twin turbo was mediocre in performance.

The main reason was that it was a beautiful car with great lines and it had the ability to be a great handling awesome sports car.

The miata has ugly straight lines that people bought because it was light and RWD.

The twins are beautiful cars with great lines whose performance in stock trim is awesome in handling and mediocre in power.

Are they likely to become collectibles, maybe...that's usually not easy to predict, is it possible, yes... is it more likely than a miata hell YES!!!!!


Jaden

Right, because it is an classic American muscle car that appeals to a huge variety of old men with money.

Do you guys ever watch shows like "Chasing Classic Cars". I think we need to define what types and condition of these cars actually sell for real money. A rusted out old car like a 68 Camaro is not going to be a high priced car at auction. A mint condition garaged one, or a fully restored one? Yes. Will go for good money.

Is it possible that a 2013 BRZ with original equipment that is either low miles/mint condition or full restored to mint condition could be considered a collectible in 30-40 years? Possible. But these are economy Japanese sports cars that tend to be driven. I would look at what first generation RX-7's go for today as an example of what you might expect to get for one down the road.

This will NOT be a collector... sorry.

If anything, these will end up being the 240sx now come 20 years.

I have to laugh at some people...
 

comparing the FRS to a car like a 240sx or miata is ridiculous. These cars are ugly horrible cars in stock trim.

The twins are beautiful cars with great lines and awesome handling in stock trim.

They don't need crazy body kits to make them desirable.

They don't need crazy mods to make them more than just a DD with good mileage.

You want to compare them to a comparable car (different, but more comparable for the same reasons that made the car what it was) then compare them to the Supra or the 300zx...

Those cars had similar lines and similar performance (in different ways and stock trim).

and similar performance numbers...

Jaden

Okay, tell me what the going price is for a mid 90's Z32 300ZX is that is in average condition?

collectible and price aren't the same thing...
 

I don't know any more.

However, collectible doesn't have to mean a high price tag.

When I was in high school(mid 90's) a 71' 442 was a collectible car. I could buy one for $3500. Should have in retrospect, even though I didn't have the money.

So collectibility and price don't necessarily go hand in hand.

Jaden

Average condition 96 ZX turbo (which sold for nearly $40K new) is going for around $9-10K. If you found a low mileage/mint condition (we are talking showroom/perfect) you might fetch high 20's.

That Miata you like to make fun of can actually hold it's value better, especially if it is an NA in good condition, or one the more M models in good condition that had limited production color/amenities production runs.

I think we need to define what collectible means here... If you mean finding a mint condition 20+ year old Japanese sports car.. Then yeah. Those can be hard to find depending on the car, year, and specific amenities. Does not mean that they are worth much though..

well..
 

Ok, this doesn't even consider the point I was making. You're comparing apples to oranges...

Collectibility and price are not correlated in a LOT of situations.

Forbes rated it as being in the top ten current cars that are likely to become collectible..

That just means they'll be desired in the future... doesn't mean they'll retain value, go up in value etc...

Jaden

A collectible classic car is usually a game changer that made an impact to the car industry when it debuted, or a redemption model to regain brand status, or a design / technological breakthrough of its day, or sunset product lifecycle? For example Honda NA1 NSX, BMW E30 M3, Mazda NA Miata, Porsche 993?

I don't think if I were driving a new S13 240SX back in '89 I would be getting as much attention on the streets as now with my BRZ (I do get a lot of people asking me questions at gas stations and parking lots, considering my BRZ isn't a special edition or in some funky colorway, it's can be a game changer because it's refreshing with limited competition on the market today, thus the hype).

To be a future collectible, the car would need some design elements or features that would be sought after.

One can argue the twins could be the last of the old school design sports car (i.e. front engine with low hoodline, manual transmission, relatively lightweight, limited electronic gadgetry, etc), hence future collectibility.

yeah and that's pretty much where it's been at for 15 years.
 

yeah that's what I remember it being at in the early 2000's too... so it held it's value. Any correlation is a one way street between collect ability and price...

If it's a higher price or holding its' value, it's because it is collectible, but just because it's collectible doesn't mean it will hold its' value or go up in value.

Jaden

It's nothing real, just a phrase I made up when talking to a buddy of mine years ago. Thought of it like terminal velocity when falling - every object (car/human/coin) has some speed where it just stops falling faster, and just keeps at a relatively constant speed of fall.

Cars generally depreciate the same way. Most boring cars like a camry or something will just keep going lower and lower but most sports cars have some limit where they just stop a bit higher than "normal" cars. Some make sense, some don't.

Time will tell where the twins stop - the oldest one in existence is only two years old, lol. I just don't see them ever being 3800 dollars, just because it's 12 years old. They won't be silvia/supra/etc valuable on the used market but they'll probably stop around 40-50% of it's original price, which is pretty good in the grand scheme of things.

A collectible car is one that increases in value at some point in its life. It is not a car that increases in value from its original purchase price after allowing for inflation. One never buys a collectible car new and keeps it, by definition that isn't collecting anything. Cars depreciate and then they get scrapped or collected. There's no third class of car.

The BRZ will rarely be purposely scrapped is my prediction.

And don't say every Ferrari is collectible because that ain't so and never has been so. Only some Ferraris become truly collectible, many of them are just dogs.

I think Subaru partnered with Forbes to try and boost sales for the BRZ because they aren't getting as many sales as they hoped for. This would be a perfect way to do it.

I could see the twins appealing to older people years from now. There are a lot of people interested in the 86 who either can't afford one yet, or are waiting for them to depreciate. Obviously the car won't be on the same level as the 1M or s2000 CR, but I think it will desirable on some level.

I think you would be surprised at how much people are willing to pay for project car Camaros these days. Especially for the more popular SS/RS trims. http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4578578239.html

I'm not saying these cars are going to be worth a ton of money in the future, what I'm saying is that I think people 20 years from now will consider the gt86 "classic".

Maybe JDM GT86s with rhd will be imported for collectors paying crazy bread. Or low serial # mint BRZs in WRB.

Those all TRD builds we've seen on the forum could appreciate, especially if you found a TRD SC for it.

This makes me feel a little bad for stripping it down and raping it with car parts.

Only a little bad though.

Me too actually, I wouldn't mind them only producing the FRS from now on and discontinue the BRZ.

this is where i have to stop the madness. are you seriously stating that the frs be compared to a supra or 300zx? just remember that many people still do consider the supra to be not only iconic, but even put it into the super car realm of cars. earlier you even stated that the performance of the car (supra) wasnt impressive...do you remember at what time it was made? does that mean you weren't impressed by a rx7 or skyline then also? the only reason the car was stuck at that number was because of the agreement between nissan and toyota, and even the power was reported lower than it was. but guess what happens when you start to open various parts of the car with upgrades? also (not to address you directly), but a stock supra can freaking handle pretty well. go look up what it is capable of number wise. yes, it can feel bloated but it still handles great for a stock car 20 years ago!

yes...
 

Stop the madness, I love it... coming from someone with one of the cars I mentioned that is now outdated... although a great car with AWESOME potential...

I don't consider cars that have to have butt tons of nitrous or are running 30 lbs of boost on race fuel to be the potential for a street car.

I consider the potential of a street car, whatever boost and timing they can run on pump gas reliably. So that's where I come from in regards to that.

I absolutely believe they can be compared.

I don't for a second believe that (outside the tuner community) that the reason that supra's and 300zx's are collectible is because they were monster performers for the time (in 99 a camaro ss was running faster than a 98 supra by quite a bit) or because they could be made to be fast.

Supra's and 300zx's were beautiful cars with great lines and were sporty.

That's what made them become collectible.

The same types of things were said about those cars at the time that are being said now about the frs.

That's why it is being lauded as potentially a future collectible.

I'm not even saying that it necessarily compares to those cars performance wise, when you account for the different eras, although it definitely handles better than them.

When you have professional drivers stating that it handles better than anything other than a ferrari 458 italia, that's pretty impressive.

It's that type of thing along with gorgeous lines in stock trim that make a car collectible.

So really the only reason I was bringing up those cars is that I don't believe it's fair to compare a twin to a miata or a 240sx.... It's much more than that, in looks AND performance.

Jaden

Have you ever been in just a bpu supra? It wouldn't need the butt tons of nitrous or 30 lbs of boost to be what you said. Go find your sources on what a stock supra vs a stock frs can do on a skid pad. After a couple years pass, I think the frs will be like your rsx, integra, civic, 240, miata types of cars just because of depreciation in regards to the crowd of people getting them. Performance wise what are the number of the frs versus the miata or 240?