How fast is the GT86 on track?
 

Hey everyone...

After giving up on the idea of buying a GT86 for a while, I'm again toying with this idea seriously. I figured I'd ask a few questions to ease my decision.

First - about me a bit:
I've been driving various Evos for the last 7 odd years or so - had everything - 8,9,10... Modded, driven em on slicks... The works... They're a blast - fact - and fast as fu*k, however - they are expensive to maintain - and the bigger reason - I have grown a bit bored of them. Since my passion for evos lead me to open a workshop and we're now the #1 place to go to in our country for evos, they are a part of my daily routine... There is no doubt whatsoever I will park myself an evo IX somewhere and keep it till I die at some point, but right now I'm looking for ... well... Fun.:) I used to be able to have fun on the streets with an evo - nowadays I'll get arrested as they're just too damn fast... 1-2-3 shift to 4th and go to jail.

However ... I am competitive. I like to be fast but as I've grown older, i dont feel right driving a 400+whp car on slicks with no cage anymore... Hence - I'm considering the 86 for real. I'd still drive it on slicks at tracks etc. but it's a newer and safer car...also the occasional street sideways drift moment is intriguing to me. And with less maintenance cost - I could track it a lot too.

Now my question is - how fast/slow is a well driven 86 on the track compared to semi stock-ish evos, stis and the other usual track suspects? On a 1.45 lap - how much time difference can I expect? I would ofcourse mod the car towards trackability (basic boltons, tune, brakes, slicks)...

Also - a non motorsport question - with proper winter tires - how good is the car in the snow? I intend to daily it (like I do the evo) but I don't want to get stuck with it. My old mercedes was rwd and light in the back and it was horrible even with brand new blizzaks. I had to toss in 80kg of sand in the trunk - than it was managable...

Thanks in advance for the comments - keep in mind uour opinion might make me sell an Evo ix to join the community here!

P.s. I have no intention of boosting the car anytime soon so answers should relate to NA.

2014 times so far on west coast:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.n...31395246_o.jpg

Compare that against other cars on the same track. It will ultimately come down to driver, but the car can hold its own against formidable competition.

Yesterday someone in a "Street Class FRS put down a faster time than a gutted NA modded Corolla at Streets! Sub 1:30!

-alex

Thanks for those times, I'm hoping for some direct feedback from people - also it's hard to compare times not knowing the mods and tires on the cars etc... I'm looking also for feedback "from people that came from faster cars".

Ty:)

@CSG Mike

I can answer the snow question. I DD mine through.one of the snowiest winters in Ottawa in recent years and never got stuck once or felt unsafe.

Toyo GSI5 205/55/16 tires.

So if I'm reading this correctly, James Dutton in stock class put down a 1:40.9 on WSIR, which was at least 7 seconds faster than everyone all the way up until super modified, where CSG_Mike and ImperiousRex went 1:34 and 1:35?

Sounds like Mr. Dutton has mad skills.

Because of all the variance in driver level, it probably makes sense to look at published/controlled times for something like this.

Pros at Laguna Seca:
1:47.71 - Evo X MR
1:47.93 - Evo IX MR
1:51.30 - BRZ

Amateurs at VIR Grand West Course:
3:10.6 - Evo X SE
3:13.3 - Evo X MR
3:13.5 - Evo IX MR
3:18.6 - BRZ

So bone stock, you're looking at something like 3.5 seconds slower on a ~1:50 course, or 5 seconds slower on a ~3:15 course. This will obviously depend on configuration of the track and other factors, but there's a rough guide. That's a fairly significant gap.

Take an otherwise stock BRZ/FR-S and add extreme performance street tires (RE11, Z2SS, RS3, etc.), and you can expect something like a 2 second improvement on a ~1:30 course.

^ this

A few basic mods makes a huge difference on a long course like VIR Grand. With just Dunlop Z2's, coilovers, and a BBK I did a 3:11.09 and I know I can probably drop another second or 2 as I've dropped 4 seconds off my VIR full course since the weekend I ran both VIR Full and Grand courses. Haven't had a chance to run Grand since then though.

[ame]http://youtu.be/n5V93tXyiSM[/ame]

Also, I'll throw in a little anecdote from someone I do time trials with. He used to drive a track prepped Evo putting down a lot of power but ended up switching to an E36 M3 for a lot of the reasons you described (safety, running costs, reliability). At first he was bored with how much slower it was than his Evo, but now he's become the fastest driver in my region for my class and is regularly faster than a lot of his friends still driving Evo's. Driving a relatively underpowered car is a great way to become a better driver as it is quite easy for a powerful car to cover up mistakes.

Another good data point. Good driving in that video btw. Looks smooth and fast.

On the portion of the track that matters, you can more than hold your own against the cars that you mentioned. However corner exit speed can only get you so much on the straights and you will be a sitting duck naturally aspirated. E85 tune and bolt-on's help considerably but a reliable blower may be something you would consider down the road.

I plan to go that route soon but for now it's still a blast just staying near cars like this one until the track straightens out and they run away. BTW this is a 13 GTR with nearly 600 whp and if anyone questions the driver's ability I'll simply mention "Forged"

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwU7YD-UKOQ"]FRS at Roebling Feb 2014 - YouTube[/ame]

Lap times vary a bunch out at willow due to the heat. Also Stock class isn't really stock out here it's more like slightly modified stock. Yesterday I didn't see anyone but myself on the stock tires. You can run coilovers, BBK, Camber Plates, and stickier tires in the stock class.

That being said and to stay slightly on topic. The BRZ is a fun car to drive because it challenges your skills even though it's slow. Yesterday I think I topped out at 96 MPH or so and at big willow which is a high speed track I think I did 114 MPH. To me it's like racing a big Kart but one of the slower ones that makes you learn to be smooth. I've driven all kinds of fast cars but honestly I'd say this is one of the more fun cars I've driven in a while.

They're the fastest thing ever on the track. Trade me for your Evo and you can see for yourself ;) lol

Actually... at Big Willow it's about who has the biggest balls. End of turn 1, turns 2-3, turns 8-9 are all about how brave you are and how deep your pockets are if you wreck.

-alex

As a previous Evo owner and a couple STIs I say FRS/BRZ will feel very slow even compared to a stock Evo and it's extremely boring in stock form in the street in my opinion so you have to do something to get rid of the torque curve if you look for a fun car in the street this could be an Unequal Length header and a good tune ,,I was a bit impatient since the track season is limited to 4 months here in PNW so I ordered my SC kit soon after I purchased my car ... but when it comes to track use FT86 platform is phenomenal in my opinion even in the stock form with some basic bolt ons, a different set of wheels and tires, pads and rotors car comes alive.

When I tracked my Evo I also felt that the car was a bit boring because everything is really predictable with AWD and the superior AYC system., but let's face it it's easier to drive faster around the track with an Evo ..especially with the robotic SST in the Evo X MRs ( I had a GSR)

take a look at the videos below ,, FYI, my times were about 5 seconds faster with the stock BRZ ( R compounds and Stoptech Street pads) vs a Stage 2 Evo X GSR with Michelin PSS,, but I have to say that was my very first time at that track so if I had the Evo now I am pretty sure my times would be a lot faster at the same track especially if I had an R comps..

now with the SC and other goodies I was able to cut additional 4-5 seconds at the same track (RMP)


Stage 2 Evo X GSR (Michelin PSS , street pads)
[ame="http://youtu.be/1L4lBsiCLBc"]http://youtu.be/1L4lBsiCLBc[/ame]

Stock BRZ , R comps, street pads
[ame="http://youtu.be/lvz-aYHuF44"]http://youtu.be/lvz-aYHuF44[/ame]


and SC BRZ, Coilovers and bunch of other mods (bad ABS sensors at this event)
[ame="http://youtu.be/Fa1UWvB-Lrg"]http://youtu.be/Fa1UWvB-Lrg[/ame]

I completely agree, I personally still think that I can drive smoother I find my driving style a bit aggressive/edgy even after driving many years with many different sports cars .. so it's a never ending process I guess :/

What can I answer for you? :)

Thats cruising...

Here's a 1:30.778 lap
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU4Sa3RCCV4"]Willow Springs International Raceway BRZ/FRS/GT86 lap record 1:30.778 - YouTube[/ame]


For comparson:
http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/willow_springs.html
1. Porsche 918 Spyder 1:23.54 '13 887 / 1640 Randy Pobst
2. Dodge Viper SRT-10 ACR 1:26.00 '08 608 / 1536 Dominik Farnbacher
3. Porsche 911 (991) 50 Years Edition 1:28.93 '13 400 / 1410 Randy Pobst
4. Chevrolet Corvette ZR1 1:29.69 '08 647 / 1530
5. Nissan GT-R 1:31.23 '08 480 / 1740 Steve Millen


Keep in mind that this is on tires with 23 heat cycles, street tires (Dunlop Z2), and I'm taking a very conservative line because it's not my car and I don't want to go off.

HOW FAST IS THE GT-86 ON THE TRACK ?
 

Depends on the track -

Locally we have only one track with a straight long enough for Ferrari's etc. to get up to speed. All the rest are twisties, perfect for the 86.

At the Mosport Gran Prix track, the supercars would leave me behind on the main straight, but I would catch up before Moss corner, and ended up the caboose at the end of a line of Vipers,Corvettes,Mustangs,Ferrari's,Porsches,
perfectly able to pass them on corners, but not allowed due to tracking rules.

Mosport DDT, Shannonville, Cayuga etc. are ideal for our cars, and in our experience the hard core BRZWORLD trackers consistently have had equal and faster lap times than the supercars.

When properly balanced our cars tend to outcorner the competition, (except maybe for the supercharged Lotus Elise which consistently was faster than my non supercharged 86).

In any case, the 86 is a perfect track car base, especially for the price !
A 30 TO $40,000 car competative with 100 grand+ cars.:happyanim:

http://i628.photobucket.com/albums/u...ps3eb3bee8.gif

CERBERUS

This was my first day on track, stock tires, brakes and no power mods.
[ame]http://youtu.be/EuOE9re3Xyc[/ame]

Just HPDE but it was a blast and I did pass a lot of cars.

@CSG_Mike did an unofficial 1:38 on the CSG BRZ with stock suspension, power, crash bolts, and 215 Z1 Star Spec. Lap was aborted due to unsafe conditions at Turn 8.

On another note, stock BRZ will at least keep up (or slightly pull) with a stock Evo X 5-speed manual after 100mph...

Awesome info so far!

I'm currently quite convinced:)

The aero and chassis is good so it has very high cornering speeds. The suspension is good for what it is. The power is just sad. You make up a lot of time through high cornering speeds. Proper suspension/footwork setups will only increase that.

Maybe I'm just bored really but the 86 seems like the most rewarding car when driven right... And I'm scared I still don't know how to drive any better than average because evos are so easy to druve - and I mean easy. They let you get away with almost anything stupid... And the 86 seems like the perfect choice to take it back to square 1. Fast car at low speeds :)

The 86 is capable. It teaches you how to drive better. :)

Very well stated

Seems like a used z06 might suit you better.

You don't think all the power is going to mask a few issues too? That's if the massive torque doesn't snap your rear end off the track. Yeah, you get to learn to balance a chassis better via RWD versus AWD, but that grunt is such a crutch too for high speed straights. I guess you could compare your corner speeds versus other Vettes to make sure you still aren't a shitty driver. Seems like a partial solution for the OP but perpetuates the same issue. Having the ability to go fast without knowing how to go fast.

What gave it away? The part where I said I wanted a lower hp rwd or the part with the lower maintenance cost? :mad0259:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-JOIiInCeg"]Scion FRS Drive through a snowy city - YouTube[/ame]

What do all those red octagonal signs mean in Canada?

clearly someone's never driven in the snow


also, hope you know the video is sped up. People keep thinking the car is raging at breakneck speeds when it's actually crawling like a turtle.

That route was impressive - is it your evening commute?

When you can keep the pedal down to the floor most of the track you are doing something right.

i have many routes through the city at all times of day http://i.imgur.com/wfSNy.png

Ross Bentley?

Clearly! :clap:

Or you're driving something that doesn't have enough power. My riding lawnmower could go flat out and I wouldn't have to lift at all in the corners, but it's still not fast.

Hah this is true!

Which one do you think will have the lower maintenance cost? just curious :)

corvettes have a maintenance cost?


well.. maybe brake pads/rotors, I hear they go through a lot of those.