Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB
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Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community - FT86CLUB (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/index.php)
-   Tracking / Autocross / HPDE / Drifting (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=39)
-   -   Stability control is not fully defeatable? (https://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=69900)

BatStig 07-15-2014 12:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh (Post 1845088)
Will ice mode in this car stop if after inducing it the driver releases a slight amount of brake pressure, or maybe a bit more? If not, what do you do to get the braking back?
This is what I'd like to know as well.

stugray 07-15-2014 08:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thgear (Post 1845588)
if you're faster in the 914 you've either dumped many dollars into it or your FRS has the last 4 gears broken or you're afraid of the wind scratching your paint.
FYI:
Typical track times at High Plains Raceway (CO):
Formula Ford 2:00 +/-
American Iron 2:06
Acura '95 NSX (Kumho XS tires) 2:09.35
Nissan 350z (Nitto NT01 tires) 2:10
Porsche 944-Spec 2:13
Camaro Mustang Challenge 2:13
Spec Miata 2:18
09 Dodge Viper ACR 1:55

The 914s are the fastest cars in the Vintage small bore class (2.0L).
The fastest on the track in a 45 year old 914 is breaking 2:10.
At least 5 others are sub 2:20.

SO yeah 914s must suck since they are faster than miatas, and 944s.
And BTW - they are faster than 911s of the same era.

And I brought it up talking about rear diffs, and lifting a tire (or not).
How is your tirade relevant?

The 914s are very fast even though they are underpowered.
WHY? - because they are very light, low CG and make up for lack of power in the corners.
Sound familiar?

7thgear 07-15-2014 09:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stugray (Post 1848042)
And I brought it up talking about rear diffs, and lifting a tire (or not).
How is your tirade relevant?

I don't know, how is your success in a 914 relevant? You're defending electronic intervention by bringing to example a MR car with no electronics and a dinosaur suspension that works only because the car itself is feather light.




Quote:
Originally Posted by stugray (Post 1848042)
The 914s are very fast even though they are underpowered.
WHY? - because they are very light, low CG and make up for lack of power in the corners.

a paleoproterozoic-era formula ford is fast too, what's your point?


Quote:
Originally Posted by stugray (Post 1848042)
Sound familiar?

if you're trying to refer to an FRS then no, the FRS is a mid-weight car that isn't all that special in the grand scheme of things. They were 100 or so kilos off the mark I think... but then again, 25k car.

CSG Mike 07-15-2014 10:36 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BatStig (Post 1847040)
This is what I'd like to know as well.
I don't know, but I'll do some testing when I get the chance!

Keep bugging me.

stugray 08-02-2014 08:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thgear (Post 1845588)
if you're faster in the 914 you've either dumped many dollars into it or your FRS has the last 4 gears broken or you're afraid of the wind scratching your paint.

i'll just leave this picture here of a finely tuned, precision suspension design.
Just as a follow up to your naysaying. Took the 914 and the brz to HPR.
MY brz was 10 seconds faster than my 914.
HOWEVER my 914 was faster than a race prepared miata AND faster than a stock FRS.
I have track video to prove it. To be fair the 914 had Hoosiers while both twins were on street tires.

mike the snake 08-02-2014 08:58 PM
3 Attachment(s)
My last 914 was faster than my BRZ.

renfield90 08-03-2014 12:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake (Post 1879304)
My last 914 was faster than my BRZ.
Car porn. Thank you sir.

stugray 08-03-2014 01:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake (Post 1879304)
My last 914 was faster than my BRZ.
Beautiful! I am going for the Porsche viper green myself. Other 914s in my race group are orange so I need a little contrast.

ZionsWrath 08-03-2014 01:37 PM
lmao I see what you did there

Nice [purple] car

ddeflyer 08-03-2014 11:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slip Angle (Post 1846324)
I completely agree that it is driver induced. When ice mode occurs, I am going very quickly from the throttle to the brake. I'll work on applying smoother input rather than stabbing at the brake. That said, the issue is certainly real. Especially with aggressive tires and brakes, if you move quickly from the throttle to the brake, the ecu of the car is prone to getting confused and going into "ice" mode which sucks.
It's a reasonable solution then to:
1) do the pedal dance to keep stability control from getting in the way
2) learn to drive around this issue versus going all in on a stand alone racing
brake controller


I do think that ice mode happens even when not stabbing hard enough to get into the abs. It also appears to be happen only when there is steering angle present as it has never happened to me under fast transitions to hard braking in a straight line.


Again, thanks for the help!
I've only hit ice mode once, but I'm pretty sure it was in a straight line. Late, hard braking going into turn 10 at T-Hill with good tires and DS1.11 pads in a essex sprint kit, I had some bumps (don't remember if it was from cresting the hill or if it was just pavement defects, was a while ago) and the braking power suddenly was cut in half or to a third of normal. Ended up taking a wacky line to acomodate it. Next turn everything was fine. Figured out later that it was ice mode. This was in VSC sport mode BTW.

D K 08-04-2014 10:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike the snake (Post 1879304)
My last 914 was faster than my BRZ.
That's not a 914.
Not a 916 even.

That's a track monster that still barely resembles a 914

stugray 08-04-2014 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZionsWrath (Post 1879931)
lmao I see what you did there

Nice [purple] car
Maybe now you will not make assumptions when someone says they are going to compare lap times between their 914 and their BRZ.

I have less than 10K in my 914 and I was cussing because the FRS in front of me would not get out of the way....

ZionsWrath 08-04-2014 11:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stugray (Post 1881095)
Maybe now you will not make assumptions when someone says they are going to compare lap times between their 914 and their BRZ.

I have less than 10K in my 914 and I was cussing because the FRS in front of me would not get out of the way....
I made assumptions? Please show me lol

I was just acknowledging a nicely prepped track car and the allusion to baseless comparisons when the amount of work done on the vehicle is unknown or not stated (i.e. my XYZ is faster than my ABC)

:iono:

stugray 08-04-2014 07:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZionsWrath (Post 1881147)
I made assumptions? Please show me lol

:iono:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 7thgear (Post 1845588)
if you're faster in the 914 you've either dumped many dollars into it or your FRS has the last 4 gears broken or you're afraid of the wind scratching your paint.

i'll just leave this picture here of a finely tuned, precision suspension design.
So by adding ~$600 worth of rear shocks to that "precision" suspension must have made my lowly 914 into a supercar or something....

Your ASSumption was that just because a 914 is 70s tech, it is a POS.
The race prepared Miata that I passed, and the FRS that could not shake me would beg to differ.
My 914 has close to the same hp/weight ratio as the twins, but is mid engine.

And the reason the 914 even came up is that it is an Open diff stock, and "racers" make the mistake of thinking that a rear sway bar will make them faster. NOT if you have an open diff.
So if they think rear sway bars will help, then they better pony up the $$ for an aftermarket LSD.
because lifting a rear wheel with an open diff is not helpful.:bonk:


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