i can get a 1975 or older vehicle and be legal while poisoning the air worst then going catless on frs LOL

Aren't modern motorcycles worse also?

Agreed, but how many 1975 or older vehicles are on the road compared to the millions of new cars put on the road each year.

Coal fired steam engines were worse too. Does that mean we shouldn't try and improve our locomotives or ships or planes for that matter.

I'm lucky I live in a country where air pollution other than in one particular city where they were allowed inefficient open fires is virtually non-existent. But, if all cars ran without cats in your large cities you'd go back to the bad old days of pollution worse than now.

Interesting that the cat was invented after studies into LA smog. Given you're in the same state would you really want LA to go back to how it was before cats and smog controls?

No idea, but there seems to be a lot more cars on the roads than motorcycles and I assume new bikes have emission standards imposed.

Agreed, and the vehicle manufacturers I'm sure would rather keep costs down and not have regulation imposed but clean air is pretty important to those living in big cities.

Yep. I've said it many times in car communities and I'm usually hated for it, but there's only 2 reasons to not run a cat:


- You're cheap
- You're running leaded gas



Statistically insignificant in the modern car world.



Compared to modern cars? Yes. They lack EGR to lower NOX, until recently fuel injection was rare, and their control systems are a couple orders of magnitude simpler than a car.


They also aren't nearly as abundant as cars.


Guess you guys have never been on a nice cruise through the countryside with a bunch of fellow car enthusiasts and had to close up the car because the guy in front of you is catless and his exhaust is making your eyes burn...

So we will say a fifth?

I assume this means you're the latter @B-R-Z

If you can afford the car you should be able to run it in a legit way.

There is a kit that sells for $3499 shipped and I believe some go for $4000, so no I think a fourth is accurate. Quality/you get what you pay for opinions aside.

This isn't a $300k Ferrari where money is no object to the owner, how does that line apply to the BRZ? Unless I misunderstood what you were saying..?

I can afford to run it in a legit way (which I am today), but I think paying $1000 for header is insane. Call it being cheap if you want to.

If you don't think it's worth the price (and for the record I completely agree with you on that) then either don't buy it or wait for prices to eventually come down. Things are new and manufacturers want to recoup some of their losses from developing parts, which for most out there means paying for the car(s) they bought for development purposes in addition to whatever they needed to actually build the parts.

I'm old enough to remember the old days before there were catalytic converters or air conditioning in cars. Let me tell you, having to drive with the windows down in stop and go city traffic during hot summer weather really sucked. All the exhaust fumes made your eyes burn and itch. Things have improved markedly in cities since cats were mandated equipment. While the regs may hinder performance, I have no desire to go back to those days of bad air.

Here's a question for you guys:

Is running E85 while catless more or less harmful for emissions?

far less harmful, ethanol and oxygen produce only carbon dioxide and water instead of all the NOx and other bullshit gasoline produces.

if you were running E100, you probably wouldn't even need a catalytic converter

Okay, that's why the smell of my setup running catless is very mild. Thanks!