The best decision?
 

Hi guys,

Among other things I'm running a HKS L Spec Cat back, HKS Front Pipe and HKS EL Headers.

I'm not sure what to do however.

Should I sell the headers and get a turbo for my car, or keep the headers and go supercharge. There's no way to keep the headers and turbo it is there (newb)

I love the turbo sound, but I love the idea of torque from the set go; and would love a quicker 1-100 time. I want to be put back into my seat, and I'm not sure the route to go

Budget?

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Up to about $10,000 AUD (about 9300USD) (If I can get a good system without paying that much though, I'm obviously still happy :P).

Need to know budget. But if I where you sell all your exhaust parts and run stock. Then order a turbo. Then slowly replace with 3inch as time permits. Also what are your power goals

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Power goals looking at 250+ HP.

Only 250? Supercharger. Kraftworks or jackson racing, start searching the forum.

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Well 250 is an amount that's quite nice and not too shabby. If I have the room to get more, I'd definitely like more, but I heard that superchargers have all the torque - and most superchargers are getting like 250-300 yeah?

Note this is mainly a street car, but a spirited driving street car with the odd occasion (1once every 3 months) track

You can keep the header with the Ptuning kit.

There are other caveats to that kit though, and for a street car they may be enough to send you in other direction.

Turbo for big power but requires significant time to weed out general FI gremlins. Once they're out, it should be great.

Supercharger for response and proven reliability. There is significant debate between turbo and supercharger, however, there is more data available in the SC route. We've been campaigning a supercharger BRZ and a turbo BRZ. @CSG Mike can provide you with all the details since he has been driving and tuning both.

In terms of brand and reliability, I recommend Jackson Racing simply because of how reliable it is. The other frequent SC track companion is the Innovate group. Vortech shows up once in awhile on track. Never seen a KW on track yet besides FR Shootout which according to KW, was a poor representation of their kit. We're still waiting for their test car to be ready for our review, but none of them have been available for the past 6 months.

Keep the header and get the PTuning kit...

I would never run the stock catted setup with a turbo. Maybe a fluke but there is at least one case on here where the cat ended up in the turbo...

PTuning is a great kit and keeps the turbo low and out of the engine bay, etc. but it's $$$. I really like the original Accelerated kit which was very similar but they unfortunately stopped developed stuff for the car.

For your power levels though it's hard to beat the Rotrex S/C kits (Jackson and KW) for simplicity and you can keep your header. They aren't actually going to "put you back in your seat" though. They are more RPM dependent, so if you are already at 5000RPM the response will be great but you won't get that kick at 3000RPM. Nothing "puts you back in your seat" like a turbo does, they make more torque than all of the current S/C systems out there even at similar boost.

What sort of "caveats"?

Yea, ^^ I'm curious to see the response to this.

I also would love a turbo but all that I've read so far points to supercharger for the least headache route, though won't satisfy if you want bigger power over 300.

Using stock header yes you can with ptuning however eventually someday that cats gonna eat away "and how long is that, 1 week, 2 years who knows??, slightest chunk into the turbo and boom...... Once they release their header for public sales that dissolves but puts it 1300-1600 bukeroos over competitions cost for a basic setup overall. There is no debating Ptunings location and performance is great, absolutely it is. However everything that IMO is needed, the manifold, the lavacore oil cooler is all "to be announced" still on their page and will take some patience to aquire all this. Don't forget now youre over 300TQ you'll NEED a clutch and you need other supporting mods aka catch cans etc. Based on current pricing I put the PT kit complete with supporting mods easily in the 11-12K mark.

Would I love this kit, sure damn rights its just in its infancy abit company wise with "this kit" and other parts of the whole picture wise and ya its pretty much most expensive kit aside from say crawfords and a few others I dont know of I am sure.

The only caveats I'm aware of are the electric oil scavenge pump, which as I've read is rather loud, and you also need to replace the front sway bar with their custom one due to the turbo piping. It's a bigger bar so probably not a big deal but I wouldn't consider it ideal.

The OP already has a header. The PTuning kit will bolt up to any aftermarket header that mates to the factory overpipe's location.

All the other additional expenses you compiled for the cost of the kit are supporting mods that are just as necessary with any other turbo/FI kit on the market as they are with the PTuning kit (oil cooler, clutch, catch can, etc).

If you're going to be applying the cost of a clutch, oil cooler, catch can, etc., to the overall cost of the Ptuning kit, those same expenses should be applied to every other option being considered, no?

So the catalytic converter is the only legitimate caveat mentioned so far. I'm in to hear the others.

Is the electric pump really a caveat if there are zero instances of it failing? I know the sample size is still relatively infantile, but we have no reason to believe the pump is a shortcoming as of yet. (I can't comment on the noise level, however)

The kit coming with an upgraded sway bar seems to be a perk, IMO. :iono:

I hate to be the master of the obvious, but you get what you pay for. I'll try to reiterate it again. Our turbo system is not arbitrarily priced high. The quality of the components as well as the numbers of included components dictates the price.

- Not only are we using a true Garrett GT turbo, but we're using one with a $300 Tial housing. Our turbo ALONE is more than a third of the price of the entry level turbo systems. We would have absolutely no problems developing a regular front mount turbo system with a $550 Precision or Garrett JB turbo and selling it for $3,500, however, that is not the market that we are targeting.

- Our 3" downpipe terminates near the entry to the stock cat-back. Unless your front mount kit is supplying you with a free 3" overpipe and 3" frontpipe, you might want to add that to your shopping cart if you're aiming for a full 3" turboback system.

- Some kits charge you another $100-$150 to recirculate the wastegate. Another addition if you want a quiet turbo set-up. Recirculated WG is standard with our set-up and you can convert to a DTA WG with a simple WG dumptube and downpipe cap option.

- Does your kit include a free pre-tapped and welded oil pan? If not, don't forget to add it to your shopping cart. Is a shop doing the install? removing and re-install a new oil pan is a messy job and one that your local shop is not going to be doing for free. The plus side to our scavenging pump is that it negates the need to mess with the oil pan. We include the most expensive Turbowerx scavenging pump on the market with a 10,000 hour service life.

- Are you running a GT3071R or larger turbo? Does your turbo kit include a proper 4" intake, or does it use a 2.5"-3" u-bend with a mounting tab and a reducer to connect to your turbo compressor's 4" inlet. If not, are you just running a filter right off of the turbo. We include a proper 3-piece 4" mandrel bent intake tube and CNC formed air intake shroud with our setup. The intake is neither easy nor cheap to build.

- Are you running an larger aftermarket front sway bar? If not you may want to add it to the list too. We can tell you from experience that the front bar is designed to run with the stock suspension and stock wheels. You WILL want a larger front sway bar to deal with the additional leverage imposed by going with wider wheels and stiffer spring rates. Once you change out your wheels or even springs, you can throw the Subaru/Toyota's "finely" calibrated sway bar rates right out the window. Again, we include a custom front sway bar with our turbo system.

Also, let me address the cat debate again. We DO NOT run excessively high EGT's with our setup and we do not run an internal wastegate. We designed a WG priority turbine inlet pipe for our set-up. If your cat decides to make a run for it at high rpms, it will makes it way through the WG first. Any remnants that may make its way through to the turbo will unlikely do any damage to it.

http://i59.tinypic.com/124bj81.jpg

How often do you hear a PTUNING customer having to make a run to Home Depot or the auto parts store for missing coolant lines, bolts, brackets, etc when installing their turbo system? It's not a coincidence that PTUNING customers are the ones at the track checking tire pressures and speed detailing our cars between run sessions. Just food for thought. :thumbsup:

Lastly, this goes to the DIYer's, there's nothing wrong with making your own turbo system to "save" money over a purchased one. This is a great idea if you have something in mind that brings new ideas to the table. Otherwise, keep in mind that you will not be able to achieve the same production quality as a manufacturered system. Furthermore, good luck trying to sell a "made by Joe Schmoe" turbo kit in the for sale section, should you decide to get rid of your car and need to sell your turbo kit. We've been in this business long enough to know that one off home made kits often sell for pennies on the dollar, if at all.

My 2 cents.

:cheers:

- Toan

Wow, I didn't mean to stir such a debate. The caveats I was talking about are: I disagree with PTunings sway bar philosophy. I'm not willing to lose the windshield washer bottle and the last time I checked the relocation kit wasn't available yet. And finally I don't like loosing the factory strut brace. But those are my OPINIONS, they are subjective and not an indication of the total kit. Those opinions only mean that I'm not a part of the target audience.

I didn't mention the kit because I wanted to bash PTuning, I mentioned it because I thought it warranted research by the original poster. PTuning has put together an excellent kit, that should tick a lot of boxes for most FI shoppers.

So, let me rephrase my original post. The PTuning kit will allow the use of the aftermarket header, and is an excellent kit overall. It was clearly very well made, thought out, and put together. The kit does make some compromises in the name of power and delivery that I'm not willing to make, but many people are, and therefore the kit is well worth OP looking into.

Sorry @ptuning, I am a fan of the work I've seen from you guys and you have my full respect. I was in a hurry and didn't realize my post, that was intended to point OP in a direction for his research, would result in this shit.

I have been researching both options as well.(sc vs turbo) for the 250 whp goal both can meet and exceed that number fairly easily. It seems that sc is easier and quicker as far as install to run time. I.e factory tuned kits such as Jr and vortech. Turbo kits can provide verysimilar power bands with higher potential but require custom tuning must of the tune for optimal safety and power. I've had a turbo car but not a sc one. So my only first hand knowledge is somewhat limited. So imho you need to decide which is more important to u. Pinned back power or ease of install? Turbo will def push u back but may be more in depth to get set up just right. Sc will pull smoothly to red line. (Which is still really fun) and from my research would be a bit more "bolt on" for lack of a better term. Also the innovate kit comes on immediately but may be a bit short of your goal. Also keep in mind that it's been said by many experienced builders to take Ur hp goal and x 1.5 cuz like a lot of us u may want more. Best of luck in ur build. According to your budget u have several GREAT options. And if u want turbo and your header ptuning is hard to beat from what I've seen.

I don't think anyone thinks u're bashing them. From their "tone" of typing, I feel like they just came on to say their piece. I thought that was a pretty good exchange to further clarify the intricacies of a turbo kit, because ultimately, a lot of newbies to turbos will think all they need is a "kit", and end up short on parts.

I cannot stress this enough. If your kit manufacturer can't even include the proper fasteners... what other details are they skimping on?

But the thing with ptuning their kit isn't rhd Compatible or else I'd be all over it!

Just to chime in on personal experience.

Its not as loud as some have reported. The reason whe all think and say its loud initially is because when we test it for the first time post install, the car is off, no oil flowing through yet and its cold.

When you're at a stop light you will hear it with windows down and very faintly with windows up. Its quieter than your radiator fans. When the AC is on you will not be able to hear it.

Lastly - you don't hear it at all when the car is is motion > 5mph.

We can definitely make this happen. PM me if you're interested in being the first RHD customer.

- Toan

No worries, my post was definitely not directed at you or anyone in particular. I trying to answer multiple questions/concerns from multiple posts all at once. :cheers:

- Toan

Typical, now you say you can look at a rhd kit (!) I emailed you guys just before xmas to try and convince you but you were too busy. Good luck to whoever gets a rhd kit - I'm sure it will be awsome. Obviously I'd have been all over this but am now committed to another....:mad0260:

Sorry we couldn't accommodate you at the time, but we were neck deep in new projects during the winter. We've since had time to really take a look into what is needed to make it work with RHD models.....likely just a modified lower intake section.

- Toan

Maybe this is a good time to ask if I can be the first @ptuning customer with a kit for the automatic :D:D